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Those who are very uncomfortable with "fundamentalist" are you also uncomfortable with "Baptist"? Why or why not?
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admin said:
"Baptist" denotes theological characteristics that distinguish Baptists from, say, Presbyterians or Anglicans.
"Fundamentalist" connotes, not theological distinctives, but unpleasant traits such as anti-intellectualism and general narrow-mindedness. I'd say the comparison is apples and oranges.
I am ok with the basic truths of historic fundamentalism.
I am also ok with the basic Baptist distinctives.
But I don't label myself as a fundamentalist because it would be misleading. Though I think I'm pretty solid on basic orthodoxy, there is also a lot of liberal Christianity in what I believe. And I don't just mean what 'fundies' call liberal that really isn't. I like a lot of what Borg, Crossan and McLaren have to say.
And Baptist is not my denomination. I prefer liturgical, Anglican and Lutheran. My church happens to be both, which I like a lot. I don't have to choose between my two favorites.
I am also ok with the basic Baptist distinctives.
But I don't label myself as a fundamentalist because it would be misleading. Though I think I'm pretty solid on basic orthodoxy, there is also a lot of liberal Christianity in what I believe. And I don't just mean what 'fundies' call liberal that really isn't. I like a lot of what Borg, Crossan and McLaren have to say.
And Baptist is not my denomination. I prefer liturgical, Anglican and Lutheran. My church happens to be both, which I like a lot. I don't have to choose between my two favorites.
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Izdaari said:
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated?
The Rogue Tomato said:
Not THAT Borg. Marcus J. Borg, a member of the Jesus Seminar, and a good friend of N.T. Wright's. They did a debate book together about the historical Jesus. Though I thought Wright won the debate, Borg also made a lot of good points.
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I am Baptist, that is the label I carry, and one my name tag has on it when all the Deaf ministry folks get together (Baptist, Methodist, Mennonite, etc).
Fundamentalist, as a label, would be broad and open to being misconstrued. Too many people with differing beliefs claim that label.
At least with the Baptist label it brings thing down to a much more narrow point.
Fundamentalist, as a label, would be broad and open to being misconstrued. Too many people with differing beliefs claim that label.
At least with the Baptist label it brings thing down to a much more narrow point.
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TimbauxRioux said:
Yeah, like Primitive Baptists and Free Will Baptists.
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Sure there are differences.. like there are differences between all the other groups, probably the catholics being the only exception, but polity is usually the same, baptismal mode the same, etc
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TimbauxRioux said:
There are many flavors of "Catholic".
[quote author=TimbauxRioux]...but polity is usually the same, baptismal mode the same, etc...[/quote]
But then there are questions of soteriology, eschatology, ecclesiology, pneumatology.....
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Today while visiting my SS students I asked 9 people, who did not know I was from FBCH, what it would mean to them if I said I was a fundamentalist.
Out of the 9, 8 thought it had something to do with Islam, only one thought it meant I was a Fundamental Baptist Christian.
I can see why people want to avoid using the term.
The meanings of words change over time and we have to give up the use of many of them.
Can you imagine what people would think if I said I was gay? I just meant I was happy, but that is not the message they would get. I have totally abandoned the word gay to describe being happy.
Like the Flintstones song says, "we'll have a gay old time".
It might be a good time to stop using Fundamentalist too.
Out of the 9, 8 thought it had something to do with Islam, only one thought it meant I was a Fundamental Baptist Christian.
I can see why people want to avoid using the term.
The meanings of words change over time and we have to give up the use of many of them.
Can you imagine what people would think if I said I was gay? I just meant I was happy, but that is not the message they would get. I have totally abandoned the word gay to describe being happy.
Like the Flintstones song says, "we'll have a gay old time".
It might be a good time to stop using Fundamentalist too.
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bgwilkinson said:
No kidding. Imagine if that's what it meant when Bugs Bunny sang this in 1939. Not to mention the word "swinging". Oh, and like he does in many other cartoons, he even dresses up as a woman. Well, a dog woman, anyway.
All the world was gay,
swinging on its way
Things were looking brighter day by day
Nothin' ever wrong,
life was just a song
Till that Looney Tune came along
Ohhhhhh, I'm going cuckoo, woo-woo!
Here comes the choo-choo, woo-woo!
I'm so gooney, Looney Tuney, tetched in the head
Please pass the ketchup, I think I'll go to bed!
Am I the screwball, woo-woo
Throw me the eightball, woo-woo
Once I knew a thing or two
now I'm a buckaroo
Hinky-dinky parlais... vous-woo!
The song:
The Hare Um Scare Um Song
The whole cartoon:
Merrie Meleodies Har-em Scare-Um 1939
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Can you imagine if you were a KJVO and you were to use the following text.
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
All you want to do is preach a Bible message on treating people with respect and not looking down on people who are not as well off as you.
Do you think you would ever get your point across with this text?
I think the service would be a bust.
Deacons might come up to you latter and ask what you were thinking.
Might even be out of a job.
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
All you want to do is preach a Bible message on treating people with respect and not looking down on people who are not as well off as you.
Do you think you would ever get your point across with this text?
I think the service would be a bust.
Deacons might come up to you latter and ask what you were thinking.
Might even be out of a job.
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Yes, very easily. I dont know any regular attender that would mistake what it meant. I have one latec 50's struggling addict that would probably chuckle so I might spend 3 or 4 seconds explaining the word to minimize his distraction.bgwilkinson said:
I do however agree that the usage and meaning of words can change over time. Fundamental/ist may be one of those words.
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rsc2a said:
This is a hilarious statement coming from a KJVo guy.
[/quote]
KJVOs admit that the meaning of a word changes over time. They just believe that the only God-given meaning is the one God gave in 1611.
Which begs the question, why don't KJVOs write and speak in Elizabethan English?