Fundraising Question

[subllibrm]

I will set up a donation for FFF to continue. We need 1.5 million to make sure this site continues until "The Day of the Laaaawd."

This is commanded as the 18th gospel found in the book of Acts.

Do I see a hand? There in the back, bless you son, I see your hand, you can put it down now (before anyone else sees my imaginary repentant soul).

Do I get a genuine prayed over hanky? With your own personal tear stains?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

So you have no examples of "whims" but you are sure that it is more common than uncommon. Who can argue with logic like that?

But to answer your latest accusatory "question", no. I have no recollection of any impulse buying driven through the congregation by the powers-that-be train. Sorry to burst your bitter bubble buddy.

Bitter? You've made a rather large assumption about me. I gave examples. Examples you ignore. You then call me "Bitter"?

Typical. Enjoy your illusion.

You mentioned gold plated offering plates. Really? That's all you have?

That isn't all I mentioned and I have plenty more. Regardless, you're the one throwing "bitter" around based on just few words I've written. Again, enjoy your illusion.

 

[subllibrm]

Every post in the thread:

They may exaggerate. Who knows. Most ministries of this type are very seldom produce audited financials.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/

Charity Navigator does a pretty good job of providing public information on various charities. Many religious charities refuse to provide public information or even share financials with donors.

I think another interesting aspect to a question like this is....

How the artificial goal set by the average church preaching "tithing" with thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere just waiting to be spent at the whim of those in control of the money?

I'm all for support a local church financially. However, twisting the preaching of the tithe to force people to give your own choices is rather ungodly.

I don't really have a problem with the begging. I have a problem when true motives are hidden and Scripture is twisted to benefit those motives.

Are you actually saying that congregational approval CAN'T be classified as a "whim"?

Most congregations will never even get to vote on something..... WITHOUT some type of prior approval to bring the issue before church. Very few congregations vote on everything. They only vote on what the powers that be want them to consider. Much like our lovely congress does when bills are held by leader of the Senate or the House.

Granted. Not all do this but I'd say its more common than uncommon. Even when there is a group vote, very few will go against the prevailing "winds" steering the process.

I can name a few things but you probably wouldn't agree with me. How about we cut to the chase..... do you know of anything you believe is being misspent.

I can say....that tired old line of "Nothing is too good for the House of God" is pretty silly. Somehow I don't think that has anything to do with flag poles on church ground waving the supposed "Christian" flag. Or silver/gold plated offering plate.....s because only the best should be used to collect "God's money".

I asked a question and then answered your question. Don't pretend I didn't. Read again.

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

Bitter? You've made a rather large assumption about me. I gave examples. Examples you ignore. You then call me "Bitter"?

Typical. Enjoy your illusion.

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

 

[subllibrm]

So.... You've never been faced with an "impulse" decision someone came up with?

So you have no examples of "whims" but you are sure that it is more common than uncommon. Who can argue with logic like that?

But to answer your latest accusatory "question", no. I have no recollection of any impulse buying driven through the congregation by the powers-that-be train. Sorry to burst your bitter bubble buddy.

Bitter? You've made a rather large assumption about me. I gave examples. Examples you ignore. You then call me "Bitter"?

Typical. Enjoy your illusion.

You mentioned gold plated offering plates. Really? That's all you have?

That isn't all I mentioned and I have plenty more. Regardless, you're the one throwing "bitter" around based on just few words I've written. Again, enjoy your illusion.

I "threw bitter around" due to your refusing to engage in an actual discussion. Read the record of your posts. Why couldn't you just answer a simple question without adding more vague insinuations.?

Sub: what kind of "whims"

PY: "I would tell you but you wouldn't agree"

And who is making assumptions again?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

Spend what you want. Just don't make it out to be anything more than your own desires. My problem comes when people attempt to equate their own desires with God's desires...... and then.... through coercion..... force those desires on God's children as being "God's will".

Enjoy your flags. Enjoy your offering plates. Just don't tell me God wanted "His" money spent on such things. I realize that everything is God's. However, the coercion seen in the average church to pass off individual and collective "whims" as being the very divine "choice of God"..... is rather sickening.

Call me bitter if you want. I think more of God than to swallow such nonsense.

 

[subllibrm]

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

Spend what you want. Just don't make it out to be anything more than your own desires. My problem comes when people attempt to equate their own desires with God's desires...... and then.... through coercion..... force those desires on God's children as being "God's will".

Enjoy your flags. Enjoy your offering plates. Just don't tell me God wanted "His" money spent on such things. I realize that everything is God's. However, the coercion seen in the average church to pass off individual and collective "whims" as being the very divine "choice of God"..... is rather sickening.

Call me bitter if you want. I think more of God than to swallow such nonsense.

You still haven't made any connection to "whims". And I have no idea what your coercion rant is about.

BTW we have window blinds, carpeting, running water and flush toilets too. All paid for with "God's money".

From what you wrote and how you wrote it, it appears that you have a hobby horse and this thread gave you a soap box upon which to pontificate.

 

[subllibrm]

FWIW I should have noted that the flags are part of the front sign/lawn scape that was donated by a family to honor their deceased parents. No church monies involved.

Even so, the project did have to be voted on by the congregation because it was a material change to the property which belongs to the congregation.

Still don't see any "whims" but some of you very well may.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

Spend what you want. Just don't make it out to be anything more than your own desires. My problem comes when people attempt to equate their own desires with God's desires...... and then.... through coercion..... force those desires on God's children as being "God's will".

Enjoy your flags. Enjoy your offering plates. Just don't tell me God wanted "His" money spent on such things. I realize that everything is God's. However, the coercion seen in the average church to pass off individual and collective "whims" as being the very divine "choice of God"..... is rather sickening.

Call me bitter if you want. I think more of God than to swallow such nonsense.

You still haven't made any connection to "whims". And I have no idea what your coercion rant is about.

BTW we have window blinds, carpeting, running water and flush toilets too. All paid for with "God's money".

From what you wrote and how you wrote it, it appears that you have a hobby horse and this thread gave you a soap box upon which to pontificate.

You see a hobby horse. I see the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Comparing what I said to window blinds and indoor plumbing is disingenuous.

Yes. Churches sell their own personal desires as God's desires. They coerce their members into to giving for said desires by calling on people to give to "God". Its a problem with most churches. It goes beyond the falsehood of the "tithe" right to the very heart of coercion.

 

[praise_yeshua]

FWIW I should have noted that the flags are part of the front sign/lawn scape that was donated by a family to honor their deceased parents. No church monies involved.

Even so, the project did have to be voted on by the congregation because it was a material change to the property which belongs to the congregation.

Still don't see any "whims" but some of you very well may.

Do they go up and down on their own? Do they come in out of the rain via some moisture sensor system? or are they self aware can monitor the weather forecast in your local area? I'm being a little sarcastic but just making a point. I agree that the congregation owns such things and should vote on them. Saying these choices are "God's will" and should be funded with "God's money".... is an entirely different thing.

Again. Spend what you want. Have at it. Enjoy it. Just dont' expect to reap grand rewards in heaven for "giving to God".

 

[subllibrm]

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

Spend what you want. Just don't make it out to be anything more than your own desires. My problem comes when people attempt to equate their own desires with God's desires...... and then.... through coercion..... force those desires on God's children as being "God's will".

Enjoy your flags. Enjoy your offering plates. Just don't tell me God wanted "His" money spent on such things. I realize that everything is God's. However, the coercion seen in the average church to pass off individual and collective "whims" as being the very divine "choice of God"..... is rather sickening.

Call me bitter if you want. I think more of God than to swallow such nonsense.

You still haven't made any connection to "whims". And I have no idea what your coercion rant is about.

BTW we have window blinds, carpeting, running water and flush toilets too. All paid for with "God's money".

From what you wrote and how you wrote it, it appears that you have a hobby horse and this thread gave you a soap box upon which to pontificate.

You see a hobby horse. I see the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Comparing what I said to window blinds and indoor plumbing is disingenuous.

Yes. Churches sell their own personal desires as God's desires. They coerce their members into to giving for said desires by calling on people to give to "God". Its a problem with most churches. It goes beyond the falsehood of the "tithe" right to the very heart of coercion.

Broad brush. Truth because you say so. Got it.

BTW I don't "feel" anything. I have just no experience with the coercion you insist is nearly universal. I take that back. If every time you drive by a church that happens to have a flag pole out front it sets you off like this thread did, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So it is flag poles and plated offering plates that have your panties in a wad?

We do have flag poles. Three in fact. One with a US flag. One with a Michigan flag. One with a city flag. And chrome plated offering plates. All are at least 20 years old.

Yep, those whims are really busting our budget.  :

Spend what you want. Just don't make it out to be anything more than your own desires. My problem comes when people attempt to equate their own desires with God's desires...... and then.... through coercion..... force those desires on God's children as being "God's will".

Enjoy your flags. Enjoy your offering plates. Just don't tell me God wanted "His" money spent on such things. I realize that everything is God's. However, the coercion seen in the average church to pass off individual and collective "whims" as being the very divine "choice of God"..... is rather sickening.

Call me bitter if you want. I think more of God than to swallow such nonsense.

You still haven't made any connection to "whims". And I have no idea what your coercion rant is about.

BTW we have window blinds, carpeting, running water and flush toilets too. All paid for with "God's money".

From what you wrote and how you wrote it, it appears that you have a hobby horse and this thread gave you a soap box upon which to pontificate.

You see a hobby horse. I see the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Comparing what I said to window blinds and indoor plumbing is disingenuous.

Yes. Churches sell their own personal desires as God's desires. They coerce their members into to giving for said desires by calling on people to give to "God". Its a problem with most churches. It goes beyond the falsehood of the "tithe" right to the very heart of coercion.

Broad brush. Truth because you say so. Got it.

BTW I don't "feel" anything. I have just no experience with the coercion you insist is nearly universal. I take that back. If every time you drive by a church that happens to have a flag pole out front it sets you off like this thread did, then I feel sorry for you.

It didn't set me off. I just shared the truth. Do with it what you want. I feel sorry for you if what I wrote "sets you off"!!!!

We should be honest in our deals with our brothers in Christ. I don't sell simple desires as being equal with getting "eternal rewards" for giving to God.

 

[subllibrm]

FWIW I should have noted that the flags are part of the front sign/lawn scape that was donated by a family to honor their deceased parents. No church monies involved.

Even so, the project did have to be voted on by the congregation because it was a material change to the property which belongs to the congregation.

Still don't see any "whims" but some of you very well may.

Do they go up and down on their own? Do they come in out of the rain via some moisture sensor system? or are they self aware can monitor the weather forecast in your local area? I'm being a little sarcastic but just making a point. I agree that the congregation owns such things and should vote on them. Saying these choices are "God's will" and should be funded with "God's money".... is an entirely different thing.

Again. Spend what you want. Have at it. Enjoy it. Just dont' expect to reap grand rewards in heaven for "giving to God".

Who is saying this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

FWIW I should have noted that the flags are part of the front sign/lawn scape that was donated by a family to honor their deceased parents. No church monies involved.

Even so, the project did have to be voted on by the congregation because it was a material change to the property which belongs to the congregation.

Still don't see any "whims" but some of you very well may.

Do they go up and down on their own? Do they come in out of the rain via some moisture sensor system? or are they self aware can monitor the weather forecast in your local area? I'm being a little sarcastic but just making a point. I agree that the congregation owns such things and should vote on them. Saying these choices are "God's will" and should be funded with "God's money".... is an entirely different thing.

Again. Spend what you want. Have at it. Enjoy it. Just dont' expect to reap grand rewards in heaven for "giving to God".

Who is saying this?

Plenty of people. Are you living in a locker down at Grand Central station looking for "K" to return?

 

[Just John]

    I am not a pentecostal and could never be one, however, I enjoy Jimmy Swaggart and their music from time to time. Now, every month this ministry has a 'Sharathon' to raise money for television airtime. They always have a goal which has been around the 3.8 million dollar mark. They stress that this is only for air time and not salaries or overhead. They absolutely must have it as they have no resources if it falls short. It has fallen about 15 - 20% short the last three or four months that I have paid attention to the final numbers.

    Now, when a ministry has a fund raiser like this and falls short, do you think they they artificially inflate the goal knowing it will be short? Does a wealthy person step in after the 4 day Sharathon and make up the difference? This is something I am curious about as most ministries have become full-time fund raisers and I see different styles and different goals. I can't say I am totally against it but the constant fund raising is tiring to me and I know that in most ministries and business ventures if you don't make budget then you absolutely have to cut costs and services.

In the specific case you mention they continue to function month to month even though their goal is short b/c they don't really need the money. I've read several in depth investigative reports on Swaggart finances going back years and they've always had oodles of money. Probably precisely b/c they always continually pressure people for it.

This is kind of what I was thinking and yet still hoping it wasn't true. I have always liked JS and yet I mistrust these big ministries. How can you see we absolutely must have x dollars; If you don't really need it?

First mistake.   Just a charismatic legalistic narcissist IMO.

I sometimes see first-hand of what goes into fund-raising planning of media ministries. Some are surprisingly legit and others well....I have seen one that plans each year for a "cash crisis" month on the yearly marketing calendar.

 

[Fresh Air]

I sometimes see first-hand of what goes into fund-raising planning of media ministries. Some are surprisingly legit and others well....I have seen one that plans each year for a "cash crisis" month on the yearly marketing calendar.

Can you expand on what makes a fundraising campaign legit?

 

[subllibrm]

FWIW I should have noted that the flags are part of the front sign/lawn scape that was donated by a family to honor their deceased parents. No church monies involved.

Even so, the project did have to be voted on by the congregation because it was a material change to the property which belongs to the congregation.

Still don't see any "whims" but some of you very well may.

Do they go up and down on their own? Do they come in out of the rain via some moisture sensor system? or are they self aware can monitor the weather forecast in your local area? I'm being a little sarcastic but just making a point. I agree that the congregation owns such things and should vote on them. Saying these choices are "God's will" and should be funded with "God's money".... is an entirely different thing.

Again. Spend what you want. Have at it. Enjoy it. Just dont' expect to reap grand rewards in heaven for "giving to God".

Who is saying this?

Plenty of people. Are you living in a locker down at Grand Central station looking for "K" to return?

Last word?