Anyone disagree?
God Decrees All Things That Come to Pass
- Thread starter Baptist Renegade
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Did He decree the fall of man?
He decreed this thread. 
That he decreed it is indisputable. It is heretical to say otherwise.
I think it is important however to properly define just what we mean by "God's Decrees."
I believe it is a correct to say that "God Decrees all things that come to pass" and I stand by my statement that to believe otherwise leads to all sorts of heresy!
Notice I did not say that GOD BRINGS ALL THINGS TO PASS! All things COME TO PASS!
We can then ask whether God acted directedly or permissively?
The question is therefore whether God actively and deliberately brought about man's fall by his own actions? I say that he did not.
It goes without saying that God ALLOWED man to fall and Adam would not have fallen had God not allowed it.
So, why did God allow it?
Is the Westminster Confession right?What doeth the Westminster Divines sayeth in CH3.1-CH3.3?
Jockey definitions around and you can make anything true or false
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God never said, 'Let there be darkness,' but darkness was there in the beginning, so I have a tough time saying God decreed the Fall, though it was always part of the plan. And I mean Plan A, not Plan B.
Why?
He was seeking a bride for His Son, and that bride had to be taken out of Himself, as was Adam's.
I made bold your last few statements. So if you believe what you say you believe that God did not ACTIVELY bring about man's fall then go with the word that takes away ALL confusion and that is that God ALLOWED it.
I just read Original Sin by Jonathan Edwards. In the end, the ONLY thing that he is not absolutely sure of is the origin of evil. How did Adam come to sin his first sin. All actions in the universe are the result of the first uncaused cause, God. But God cannot be the author of Sin, yet he ordained it. It must be that there is some mystery that we cannot comprehend in his allowing it. Edwards concludes that.
That's double speak. Fact is he did NOT ordain sin. He allowed it. I've seen some Calvinistic say YES YES he allowed it but they demand the word used he ordained it too. Well if allowed doesn't give the full picture and you have to have ORDAINED then that means he's the author of it as well. Any smidgen of him having ANYTHING at all to do with it beyond just allowing it then that means there's some aspect of him that originated it. Well he didn't so I think people should just take out the word ordained. If they don't then I really don't think it's genuine for one to say they don't believe God is sin's author.
Well I'd say to Mr Edwards, Look Bud what's so hard to understand? He allowed it for a period of time a few thousand years so all in the universe can see confirmed the fruits of sin are just no good. And he allowed what we'd consider it to be a long time so no one can say he didn't give independence from him who is LIFE a full opportunity to demonstrate itself. More could be said but that's about it. .
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When Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery, did God ordain it, or allow it?
When the Assyrians invaded Israel and deported the Israelites, did God ordain it, or allow it?
When Jesus was handed over to the Romans and crucified, did God ordain it, or allow it?
If he allowed it, someone decided that it would happen. If that someone is outside God, they are greater than God. Since that cannot be, in Orthodox beliefs systems, God had to be the one who decided that sin would happen, therefore he ordained it.
Oh come on sorry but that's silly. I really know why you say that though....a push to lock in Calvinism. If he allowed it to happen that doesn't mean he had will, intent or desire for such to take place. What he did have desire to take place was mankind's free will to make a choice and that's it. If you're wanting to stay with THAT that he wanted to have man's free will to happen then fine. But that's not what you people are really saying is it? One one takes off the wraps you're saying something entirely different.
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Oh, come on now. That is just ridiculous. Man does not have free will, you Free-Willy.
Free Will as you define it is absolutely impossible. Unless man is greater than God.
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I do, and I'll highlight three points in Colossians 1:13 - 1:23 to do so.
Care to elaborate?
1) All things were created by Christ and for Him.
2) It was the Father's eternal will that His Son have preeminence in all things.
3) The Son would gain that status by His work of Redemption.
In short, the world was created for the purpose of the Cross. The Cross was always Plan A, there is no Plan B, and if the Cross was always the plan, there had to be a Fall from which to be redeemed.
That's it in a nutshell. It's a bit more nuanced, but I'm trying to be brief. The nuances are illuminated by seeing the Biblical history as it really is, types and shadows of the work of Redemption.
There's no question the church is the bride of Christ, and that there is a marriage supper to attend. So it's no stretch to see the wedding of the Second Adam as somewhat parallel to the wedding of the first Adam. And, in fact, many do.
It was not good that the first Adam have his dominion alone, and I think that tells us the status of the Second Adam necessitates a bride as well.
In the work of Redemption we are not merely restored to the inglorious innocence of Eden, but we are partakers of the Divine Nature. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. - 1 John 3:2
Both. The question then becomes "Did it come to pass according to God's directive or permissive will?"
So, When God said, Let there be light, He merely could have been permitting it to come into being?
Lol. I think you should try again.