Hate speech?

Tarheel Baptist

Tarheel Baptist

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Tarheel Baptist said:
This portends the future when it comes to preaching and teaching on ‘biblical sexuality’.
www.christianheadlines.com

YouTube Removes John MacArthur's Latest Sermon on Biblical Sexuality, Labels It 'Hate Speech'

YouTube has removed a recent sermon by Pastor John MacArthur in which he talks about biblical sexuality and asserts that God made humans as "male and female."
www.christianheadlines.com www.christianheadlines.com
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In this current age of data and information the control and flow of those ideas (combined with dis and mis information) is one of the most pressing issues of our time (there's today's understatment of the month ;)), and religious liberty is most certainly in the cross-hairs. We have to be diligent and prayerful because the momentum we see is leading us headlong into the model of hyper-secularism we already see taking place with full force in Europe.
 
ALAYMAN said:
And I present you Prima Facie Evidence
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a quote from the article.......

In her 2004 opinion piece, Rasanen claimed that scientific evidence proved undeniably
that homosexuality was a disorder in a person's psychosexual development and she
suggested that gay relationships early in life could lead to sexual abuse by adult men.
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that not only its the nail on the head ... but i could add to it and tell the other side of the story too....
as well as fill in a lot of blanks..... .. but i already have enough former friends turned enemy because
i wouldn;t go along with their ideological agenda ...which they predetermined was my obligation based
on events early in my life beyond my control.... ..

i don;t allow politically motivated harpies on the liberal left to determine or define who i am any more than i allow
religiously motivated control freaks on the conservative right to do it..... and if they want to understand what hate
speech really is... they should come listen to what i say in person, to both sides when they try.......
 
voicecrying said:
Should've just called it a sin and left out the disorder part.
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i respectfully disagree..... i think she should have said being tempted to sin is common to all mankind....
and being tempted to sin in an unnatural way is a disorder in a persons psychodevelopment that can be
caused by the actions of adults who controlled that persons early life as a child...... but neither is a sin
in and of themselves when those temptations are turned over to God.....

but to openly promote the lifestyle and to push for societal acceptance as normal something that God
calls abomination is definitely a sin.... no matter who you are.... or what you feel like inside.......

i don;t know if saying all that would have quelled the sanctimonious indignation of her enemies.. ... but
it might have helped her gain a few friends that could support her side.... ... :cool: ..
 
aleshanee said:
a quote from the article.......



that not only its the nail on the head ... but i could add to it and tell the other side of the story too....
as well as fill in a lot of blanks..... .. but i already have enough former friends turned enemy because
i wouldn;t go along with their ideological agenda ...which they predetermined was my obligation based
on events early in my life beyond my control.... ..

i don;t allow politically motivated harpies on the liberal left to determine or define who i am any more than i allow
religiously motivated control freaks on the conservative right to do it..... and if they want to understand what hate
speech really is... they should come listen to what i say in person, to both sides when they try.......
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This quote...
In the unprecedented case over freedom of speech, the Helsinki district court must also decide whether citing the Bible can be considered a crime in some cases in Finland.
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is the one that, generally speaking from an American Civil Liberties perspective, is what scares me more than anything else. The topic of this article was focused on the current raging battle over LGBTQ rights, but the very principle of religious freedom is regularly under assault (homeschooling, vaccine refusal for religious conscience reasons, church attendance in lockdowns, public prayer in schools and government locales, etc). My point isn't to split hairs with you over how the Finnish doctor parsed her analysis of therapies, but that the trend towards demanding religion be privatized is on the move globally and nationally (think Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris type philosophy) at an alarming pace.
 
ALAYMAN said:
This quote...


is the one that, generally speaking from an American Civil Liberties perspective, is what scares me more than anything else. The topic of this article was focused on the current raging battle over LGBTQ rights, but the very principle of religious freedom is regularly under assault (homeschooling, vaccine refusal for religious conscience reasons, church attendance in lockdowns, public prayer in schools and government locales, etc). My point isn't to split hairs with you over how the Finnish doctor parsed her analysis of therapies, but that the trend towards demanding religion be privatized is on the move globally and nationally (think Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris type philosophy) at an alarming pace.
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i agree with you completely .... i am absolutely against gay marriage and i am against any effort by any government to censor the bible or make quoting the scriptures illegal...... or to regulate religion in any way...... .. but i also know it emboldens a government to do exactly that if we take a solitary verse from scripture and throw it out at them like it was simultaenously a weapon against them... and a shout out to the brethren..... .. or even worse if it really was quoted with the intent of causing insult in a country that doesn;t view freedom of speech the same way we do.... and which declares any statement made by someone with intent to disparage another to be a crime....

i for one would like to know which "verse" in romans she quoted..... no news agency will say.... ... and this goes back to the objections i have always had in the past about christians quoting solitary verses of scripture and making a doctrine out of them.... ..that;s fine if we are speaking only to other christians who already believe that doctrine... .. but when fighing against a world dedicated to destroying christianity it would be better if we used a chapter... or even a book....... . . show the love of God as well as the rebuke... ....we are not going to win the state over... . they will hate us regrdless..... it;s the rest of the people we need to convince....

and that;s why i disagreed with the comment that she should have simply called it sin and left out the explanation of how children get caught up in it.... .... because to do that makes enemies of the kids in the middle of all this battle who are taking hits from both sides.... .... there are a lot of them out in the no mans land of this lgbtq fight who have been misled... who are innocent and don;t know what;s right or wrong yet..... we can win them to the biblical side of it..we can win them to Christ.... . but not if we blast away and push them to the other side first.....
 
On June 17, 2019, she asked in a Twitter post how the sponsorship was compatible with the Bible, linking to a photograph of a biblical passage, Romans 1:24-27, on Instagram. She also posted the text and image on Facebook.

“The purpose [of] my tweet was in no way to insult sexual minorities. My criticism was aimed at the leadership of the church,” she told the journal First Things in 2020. Link
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It appears she is taking issue with her Lutheran church's position on LGBTQ issues.

Having said that, I do agree that we ought to not clobber people with the Bible but rather reason with them and speak the truth in Grace. Of course some people aren't going to buy any conservative interpretation on the passages that point to homosexuality as being a sin. And it is precisely those lobbyists and political activists that are screaming the loudest for hate speech legislation, and taking bakers to court.
 
ALAYMAN said:
It appears she is taking issue with her Lutheran church's position on LGBTQ issues.

Having said that, I do agree that we ought to not clobber people with the Bible but rather reason with them and speak the truth in Grace. Of course some people aren't going to buy any conservative interpretation on the passages that point to homosexuality as being a sin. And it is precisely those lobbyists and political activists that are screaming the loudest for hate speech legislation, and taking bakers to court.
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true.... and i can;t disagree with her at all..... after all i left a lutheran church over the very same issue.... ... but still.... she quoted a passage that told how God turned a group of people over to perverse sexual sin to punish them for idolatry... ....

personally.... even though i know better and understand the truth that passage represents.... i can see how people struggling with temptations in that regard would take that passage... all by itself an without further explanation... to mean when people suffer those kinds of temptations it means God has already turned them over to a reprobate mind and there is no hope for them.... and a few verses after the part she took out of context it says those people God described deserve death..... ..

in fact.... i think i remember someone pointing to that scripture and saying that very thing several years ago on a different forum... while trying to say same sex attraction was a temptation diferent from all others ... and that it indicated one was an abomination and unsaveable.... they used that scripture to say no saved person or person capable of being saved would have those kinds of temptations....that person didn;t say people who suffer those temptations deserve to die...he stopped just short of it..... .. just like the finnish doctor he took the verse out of context.. made it say what he wanted it to.... and left the last part out.... . ....

i;m not defending what finland or any country trying to destroy religious freedom is doing..... but like scripture says... we need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.... not allowing our good to be evil spoken of..... like moses striking the rock to obtain water instead of speaking to it... we can do the right things in the wrong way..... and i say that as someone who has a habit of often doing the right things... or at least trying to do them... in the wrong ways..... ...
 
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aleshanee, there's nothing wrong with using one verse of scripture to make one's point, as long as it is used in a) context b) the right time, and c) in the right spirit without demeaning or trying to destroy an opponent. I believe Jesus used a single verse of small passage several times to prove this point.
 
It seems like the U.S. is trying to subscribe to the Chinese version of freedom of speech. I worked with a lady from China several years ago who always argued that China had freedom of speech as well. She told me in China your free to say whatever you want as long as it's in your own home and just to family members. Of course in the U.S they have the constitution they have to get around, but the main news outlets and social media is being contracted to do the job under the guise as "private companies"
 
aleshanee said:
true.... and i can;t disagree with her at all..... after all i left a lutheran church over the very same issue.... ... but still.... she quoted a passage that told how God turned a group of people over to perverse sexual sin to punish them for idolatry... ....

personally.... even though i know better and understand the truth that passage represents.... i can see how people struggling with temptations in that regard would take that passage... all by itself an without further explanation... to mean when people suffer those kinds of temptations it means God has already turned them over to a reprobate mind and there is no hope for them..... ..... .. in fact.... i think i remember someone pointing to that scripture and saying that very thing several years ago on a different forum... while trying to say same sex attraction was a temptation diferent from all others ... and that it indicated one was an abomination and unsaveable.... they used that scripture to say no saved person or person capable of being saved would have those kinds of temptations.... . ....

i;m not defending what finland or any country trying to destroy religious freedom is doing..... but like scripture says... we need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.... not allowing our good to be evil spoken of..... like moses striking the rock to obtain water instead of speaking to it... we can do the right things in the wrong way..... and i say that as someone who has a habit of often doing the right things... or at least trying to do them... in the wrong ways..... ...
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I completely agree with you that we need to approach a dialogue with the right spirit and using God's word in context with Grace. I also agree with you that those who use the Bible to clobber the lgbtq folk are doing more harm than good, and I especially agree with you that those who claim that it is the unforgivable sin are a reproach to Christ's name, along the lines of Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist.

I think where the difficulty comes in regarding the story of the Finnish politician (and more generally, public speech by way of the Civic/social arena) is that often times in this modern era people try to open up the door to dialogue in venues like social media where a tweet does not allow for enough expansion of thought to properly elucidate. Having said that, as long as somebody opens that conversation and conducts themselves in a manner that is graceful in their attempts to uphold proper morality then I think the efforts are noble and biblical. The left-leaning folk would often claim that you shouldn't judge or you shouldn't legislate morality, but that is precisely what they are doing by way of the public market square/social media and similar places, and eventually through the government legislative process. In order to have that public dialogue be effective we must meet them where they are spreading their world views and provide them the truth on our human identity and roles.
 
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