Here's Why the IFB is Dying.
- Thread starter Twisted
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Just read it. While I'm not a fan of David Cloud in other issues, he has some valid points in this article.
I would say, IFBs are not dying... they have already died.
Cloud says the IFBs are dying because: "...there is widespread ignorance about important issues such as contemporary music, New Evangelicalism, the Southern Baptist Convention, Reformed theology, reconstructionism, charismaticism, Neo-orthodoxy, Darwinian and theistic evolution, contemplative mysticism, and the emerging church."
Actually, the problem with IFBs is that the new breed have figured out the problem... lack of genuine Bible teaching. (See Paul Chappel's statements). I have heard more allegory and anecdotal evidence out of self-proclaimed Dispensationalists than I ever heard from Covenant Theologians. IFBs are disconnected.
The IFBs claim to be the "people of the book," and you will have to cast a very wide net to actually find an IFB doing the hard work of expository preaching. Even Cloud misses and ignores this point. He has and still battles periphery. IFBs give "lip-service" to hermeneutics, yet IFBs are hardly known by their sound, hermeneutical preaching. It is all "hobby-horse-filled-pablum."
Many IFBs have witnessed strong preaching by evangelicals and realized that they are finally being fed. There are a few excellent IFB preachers... but they are never the ones lifted up and showcased at the conventions.
IFBs have their annual conventions and write their resolutions against modern versions, Calvinism, fighting Covenant theology (blah blah blah). THAT is the problem with IFBs.
http://ntaibc.com/how-the-ntaibc-came-to-be/resolutions/
https://fbfi.org/positions/
Cloud says the IFBs are dying because: "...there is widespread ignorance about important issues such as contemporary music, New Evangelicalism, the Southern Baptist Convention, Reformed theology, reconstructionism, charismaticism, Neo-orthodoxy, Darwinian and theistic evolution, contemplative mysticism, and the emerging church."
Actually, the problem with IFBs is that the new breed have figured out the problem... lack of genuine Bible teaching. (See Paul Chappel's statements). I have heard more allegory and anecdotal evidence out of self-proclaimed Dispensationalists than I ever heard from Covenant Theologians. IFBs are disconnected.
The IFBs claim to be the "people of the book," and you will have to cast a very wide net to actually find an IFB doing the hard work of expository preaching. Even Cloud misses and ignores this point. He has and still battles periphery. IFBs give "lip-service" to hermeneutics, yet IFBs are hardly known by their sound, hermeneutical preaching. It is all "hobby-horse-filled-pablum."
Many IFBs have witnessed strong preaching by evangelicals and realized that they are finally being fed. There are a few excellent IFB preachers... but they are never the ones lifted up and showcased at the conventions.
IFBs have their annual conventions and write their resolutions against modern versions, Calvinism, fighting Covenant theology (blah blah blah). THAT is the problem with IFBs.
http://ntaibc.com/how-the-ntaibc-came-to-be/resolutions/
https://fbfi.org/positions/
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Cloud has some fair points and some so-so ones. Theistic evolution and the emerging church are problems. I'm not sure New Evangelicalism has much meaning anymore or it's unclear to whom it applies. Terms like these need to be abandoned or redefined.
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"A large percentage of fundamental Baptist churches will be well down the emerging path in 10-20 years . . ."
Good ol' Cloud, relevant as always. The emerging movement self-destructed about 6-7 years ago and is all but dead. You can always count on the indy-fundies to keep up with the current trends of 10 years earlier!
Good ol' Cloud, relevant as always. The emerging movement self-destructed about 6-7 years ago and is all but dead. You can always count on the indy-fundies to keep up with the current trends of 10 years earlier!
HereIStand said:
So what does the emergent church have to do with IFB? Seriously. Most people dont even know what that means. Goof ball IFB preachers get up and talk about the Emergent church as if the SBC for example is all into it. Emergent is emergent in doctrine! Not emergent because your pastor wears jeans and a golf shirt. I really dont even know why I get in these conversations! Makes my head hurt. Ignorance abounds!
The honorable Rev. FSSL said:
I don't know how many IFB churches there actually are... the problem is that the "big" ones that get all of the press seem to be ones in which the leader (pastor) draws the people to him - because HE asks them, they work hard for HIM; HE tells them to give and they give to please HIM. And the church had big numbers and the pastor is honored.
I grew up in a small farming community where we never heard of any of these "big names" - the pastor just preached what the Bible taught and didn't try to mold us into his image and to his personal standards. There may be thousands of small IFB churches that teach the Bible and who are truly "people of the book" -- but as you say, if they are not growing radically, they tend to be ignored.
The problem with the flashy churches that molded people to the pastor is that when the pastor there no more, they don't know what to do.
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Being able to discern the danger posed by emergent doctrine, or de-emphasizing the importance of salvation in favor of "missional living," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church#Missional_living. It isn't about the pastor not wearing a tie or suit.Escapee said:
IFB is not dying. The radical fringe group IFBX is dying, and rightly so. But the historic IFBs are alive and well and preaching the bible (not the stupid hobby horses of the IFBX).
If you want to hear some excellent IFB preaching plan to attend the FBF annual meeting in June of 2019 in Morrison, CO.
You will start by hearing Dr. Mark Brock, pastor of Crossway Baptist Church in Bakersfield, CA. (BTW, Dr. Brock's Doctorate is real. BA from Maranatha Baptist University, M. Div. and Th. M. from Detroit Baptist Seminary, and a D. Min. from Masters Seminary in LA.)
If you want to hear some excellent IFB preaching plan to attend the FBF annual meeting in June of 2019 in Morrison, CO.
You will start by hearing Dr. Mark Brock, pastor of Crossway Baptist Church in Bakersfield, CA. (BTW, Dr. Brock's Doctorate is real. BA from Maranatha Baptist University, M. Div. and Th. M. from Detroit Baptist Seminary, and a D. Min. from Masters Seminary in LA.)
Thomas Cassidy said:IFB is not dying. The radical fringe group IFBX is dying, and rightly so. But the historic IFBs are alive and well and preaching the bible (not the stupid hobby horses of the IFBX).
If you want to hear some excellent IFB preaching plan to attend the FBF annual meeting in June of 2019 in Morrison, CO.
You will start by hearing Dr. Mark Brock, pastor of Crossway Baptist Church in Bakersfield, CA. (BTW, Dr. Brock's Doctorate is real. BA from Maranatha Baptist University, M. Div. and Th. M. from Detroit Baptist Seminary, and a D. Min. from Masters Seminary in LA.)
Ah, yes a doctorate from John McArthur's school, steeped in Calvinism. That'll help IFB!
Yes, it will. Coming to a proper understanding of the Gospel, Monergism, as opposed to the Synergism of so much of the IFBX, would be a great help!Walt said:
Of course they don't. They teach the truth, that Salvation is of the Lord.Twisted said:
Thomas Cassidy said:IFB is not dying. The radical fringe group IFBX is dying, and rightly so. But the historic IFBs are alive and well and preaching the bible (not the stupid hobby horses of the IFBX).
If you want to hear some excellent IFB preaching plan to attend the FBF annual meeting in June of 2019 in Morrison, CO.
You will start by hearing Dr. Mark Brock, pastor of Crossway Baptist Church in Bakersfield, CA. (BTW, Dr. Brock's Doctorate is real. BA from Maranatha Baptist University, M. Div. and Th. M. from Detroit Baptist Seminary, and a D. Min. from Masters Seminary in LA.)
What is noteworthy is that Mark went to a different seminary than his dad teaches at (MBU)
There are some solid preachers in the IFB, but they are few and far between.