"Home" churches

RAIDER

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I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

 
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?

This question displays a fundamental difference in our thinking especially in regards to ecclesiology (the identity and purpose of the church) and soteriology (the means of salvation).

Ecclesiology: The church is the called-out community of believers. It is not a service, a building or anything similar. As such, one cannot "come to church" without coming to Jesus. It goes without saying that a non-believer can attend a meeting expressly for believers, but that doesn't mean we should change the reason for the gathering of the saints.

The gathering of the saints is for the saints, not for non-believers. The church should be a training camp for the evangelist, a hospital for the broken, a classroom for the immature, a courtroom for the victimized, a kick in the tail for the antagonist, a resting place for the tired, a mirror for the rebellious, and a pep rally for players on the field among many, many, many other things. It's also important for each member to know they will be every one of this things at various times and so will need a place that fills all of these roles.

The aims of the gathering should not be primarily evangelical. Shifting the focus from the believer to the non-believer fundamentally changes the purpose of the church. The members are to be evangelists in their own spaces...they learn how that is accomplished within the context of the church.

Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

What is our job? We plant. We water. God brings growth. A lot of the time that growth isn't even visible...it might be roots moving deep underground that aren't even visible. Personally, I teach our people to work on seeing everything through gospel lenses, so when they are at home, at work, at the grocery store or wherever, they can find ways to disciple others. For example, one of our team is having regular conversations with several co-workers about Jesus and the role of faith. Will the coworkers follow Jesus? Who knows...that's not the point. The point is that our people are being faithful disciples and witnesses. We leave the rest to Jesus.

How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?

As I stated above, we disciple every day. As far as baptisms, it's going to vary widely from group to group depending on who has seeded and planted prior and, most importantly, whether God has chosen to make their mission field a fertile place for new converts. We are a very small group, and we had one baptism in the last year. It was especially meaningful to me because we were baptizing my son, and I got to participate in it.

Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?

We don't generally pass a bucket or anything. As someone has a need, the others pitch in to help fill that need. We also occasionally take up monies (or other things) for other different purposes such as reaching out into our communities.

Do you support missionaries?

Individually, many of us support missionaries. Corporately, we don't often support missionaries but there are exceptions. For example, the daughter of one of our families will be going to a certain country for nearly a year, and we are providing support for her.

How many services a week do you have?

Depends on how you define "service". Because of our size, our group meets bi-weekly for a formal study where we also have a potluck. We are also meeting frequently with each other for a variety of reasons including sharing skills (e.g. a mechanic helping a non-mechanic), shared dinners out, and double dates for couples. More extremely, we have even had a couple take in individuals who are  part of the group to live with them for various lengths of time. Are any of those less services than the formal meeting?

Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

Recognize? Sure...our group is not large enough to have anyone in an official capacity but those roles are filled informally. As (if) we get larger, we would probably make the positions formal. More importantly, we teach everyone that they are exhibit the qualities of elders (teacher examples) and deacons (servants) wherever they find themselves. We also recognize that certain people have certain talents, and those people use those talents accordingly for the benefit of the whole body.
 
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?
 
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. – 1 Corinthians 3:10-15



Now, if you'd prefer, I can swap those out and use another couple dozen passages that say the same thing.
 
rsc2a said:
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. – 1 Corinthians 3:10-15



Now, if you'd prefer, I can swap those out and use another couple dozen passages that say the same thing.
And you wonder why I say the MV's are "truth mixed with error"?

Haklo

 
As to the OP:

First, the church in a house is the traditional church.

Romans 16:5
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Haklo

 
rsc2a said:
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. – 1 Corinthians 3:10-15



Now, if you'd prefer, I can swap those out and use another couple dozen passages that say the same thing.

You're like a worn out record. I'm tired of listening to you. I'm doing this one time and you can live in your delusion.

Yes, we are being saved. Yes, we are keep by the power of God. Yes, we will be changed. There is more to our salvation than what we have now. HOWEVER, you're the NUT that said its not instantaneous. YOU said that. You have constantly said this. You do this because you've never experienced a life changing event in which you were so completely changed to the point you have never been the same. Salvation is instantaneous. This doesn't preclude or change the fact that we are continually being saved and keep by the power of God. Youre are word parsing to exclude the fact that salvation is instantaneous. You have a degenerate understanding of salvation by believing salvation can not be both instantaneous and progressive at the same time.

I posted one verse that is rather clear. We are now the children of God. Instantaneous the children of God. Irrevocably God's own. You can post 100s of verses that use present or future tense terms to describe salvation. This doesn't change anything concerning the instantaneous nature of regeneration.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Yes, we are being saved. Yes, we are keep by the power of God. Yes, we will be changed. There is more to our salvation than what we have now. HOWEVER, you're the NUT that said its not instantaneous. YOU said that. You have constantly said this. You do this because you've never experienced a life changing event in which you were so completely changed to the point you have never been the same. Salvation is instantaneous. This doesn't preclude or change the fact that we are continually being saved and keep by the power of God. Youre are word parsing to exclude the fact that salvation is instantaneous. You have a degenerate understanding of salvation by believing salvation can not be both instantaneous and progressive at the same time.

I posted one verse that is rather clear. We are now the children of God. Instantaneous the children of God. Irrevocably God's own. You can post 100s of verses that use present or future tense terms to describe salvation. This doesn't change anything concerning the instantaneous nature of regeneration.

PREACH!!
 
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. – 1 Corinthians 3:10-15



Now, if you'd prefer, I can swap those out and use another couple dozen passages that say the same thing.

You're like a worn out record. I'm tired of listening to you. I'm doing this one time and you can live in your delusion.

Yes, we are being saved. Yes, we are keep by the power of God. Yes, we will be changed. There is more to our salvation than what we have now. HOWEVER, you're the NUT that said its not instantaneous. YOU said that. You have constantly said this. You do this because you've never experienced a life changing event in which you were so completely changed to the point you have never been the same. Salvation is instantaneous. This doesn't preclude or change the fact that we are continually being saved and keep by the power of God. Youre are word parsing to exclude the fact that salvation is instantaneous. You have a degenerate understanding of salvation by believing salvation can not be both instantaneous and progressive at the same time.

I posted one verse that is rather clear. We are now the children of God. Instantaneous the children of God. Irrevocably God's own. You can post 100s of verses that use present or future tense terms to describe salvation. This doesn't change anything concerning the instantaneous nature of regeneration.
The idea of being born again is the greatest analogy.
Yes, there is an incubation process, but the moment you are born, you are declared.
It is your birthday.
It happens, and it is over.
You are permanently recorded, you are a citizen.
A record of who your father is, is documented.
A certificate is made, declaring the day, but even the exact moment, down to the second, is recorded for most people, now.
This isn't a life-long process.
Our keeping, yeah, it is....and The Keeper is able, Praise His name.
But the birth is an event, one and done, and it is the beginning of the relationship with the future Groom.

Haklo

 
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
 
praise_yeshua said:
rsc2a said:
Soteriology: Salvation is not a single decision in time by an individual. Salvation is something that is happening before a person is even born, while they walk the earth, and even after their death. The members of the church in a home setting, just like the members of the church in a traditional setting, are being saved when they walk through the doors.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You no idea of what you're talking about. You claim I'm heretical and all sorts of things and you believe this junk?

Salvation is instantaneous and complete. It begins with a single decision in time and is by definition ETERNAL.

Fellow forum members..... What do you think of what this NUT calls "Soteriology"?
I have heard this kind of rhetoric before and it sounds like a Reformed theology background.  (Ever listen to R.C. Sproul's testimony? )  Ultimately it comes from Catholicism, not the  Bible.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

 
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

You are now my go to guy for ecclesiology and the pastoral epistles to determine how to keep a house church in a house.
IF I would ever desire that knowledge or application.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

You are now my go to guy for ecclesiology and the pastoral epistles to determine how to keep a house church in a house.
IF I would ever desire that knowledge or application.
It isn't "a house church", it is "The Church in a house".

Haklo

 
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

You are now my go to guy for ecclesiology and the pastoral epistles to determine how to keep a house church in a house.
IF I would ever desire that knowledge or application.
It isn't "a house church", it is "The Church in a house".

Haklo

And another option is The Church in a dedicated ministry building. As an example.  ;)
 
subllibrm said:
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

You are now my go to guy for ecclesiology and the pastoral epistles to determine how to keep a house church in a house.
IF I would ever desire that knowledge or application.
It isn't "a house church", it is "The Church in a house".

Haklo

And another option is The Church in a dedicated ministry building. As an example.  ;)
You mean, in a corporately shared debit.

Haklo
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
prophet said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
RAIDER said:
I know that some on the HAC FFF do not attend traditional churches, but rather have home church.  I think this will be a good topic for discussion.  Here are some questions to get things started:

How often do you see someone come to salvation in Christ?
How often do you see someone baptized and discipled?
Do you take an offering and if so how are the monies used?
Do you support missionaries?
How many services a week do you have?
Do you recognize the office of a bishop, elder, or deacon?

I once was a part of a house church...in that, we met in a home.
We saw people come to Christ, baptized them and helped disciple and nurture them.
Because of that, we outgrew the house.
;)
And the result, as Japhethites, was to build an Empire complete with an Emperor?

Of course you grow, so now there are more households with the church in them.

You could even assemble with those other households, in the same area, for conference once in a while.

What causes you Nicolaitans nosebleed, is the thought of "how could I control that?".
You can't.
And, so, you will remain forever opposed to the Church's Groom. 



Haklo

You are now my go to guy for ecclesiology and the pastoral epistles to determine how to keep a house church in a house.
IF I would ever desire that knowledge or application.

Should you ever desire that knowledge, God put out a manual.

Haklo

 
prophet said:
You mean, in a corporately shared debit.

Haklo

Debt or debit?

Assuming debit, are you saying there is zero cost to meeting in a home?

If you meant debt, why must there be debt?
 
subllibrm said:
prophet said:
You mean, in a corporately shared debit.

Haklo

Debt or debit?

Assuming debit, are you saying there is zero cost to meeting in a home?

If you meant debt, why must there be debt?
The home owner, one who was gifted by God with ministering, pay his normal bills,  no debit.

Even if a "ministry building" is owned, still there are regular monthly expenditures such as utilities.

Why burden the people of God with this?

It is enough to minister to the poor Saints, isn't it?

Why have corporate holdings, that a lawyer can target?

Why incorporate at all?

Why not make it all unofficial, a gathering of friends in a house?

A prudent man foresees the evil, and hides....

Haklo

 
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