"Home" churches

[RAIDER]

Yes, I am a member of a local assembly.

Our assembly meets biweekly for formal teaching and sharing of communion. Various members also meet very frequently throughout the week as we serve one another as a part of our shared lives.

The members are all missionaries, and we are all equipped and sent.

We all disciple as an integrated part of our lives and relationships. When appropriate, we have also performed baptisms.

Where does your local assembly meet?

Lots of places.

However, formal teaching generally takes place at my home.

Do you meet twice weekly or once every two weeks?

Biweekly means every other week. And we are constantly meeting each other...it's just more formal every other week.

How do you "serve one another as part of your shared lives"?

Lots of ways. People take others into their homes. Some take others to dinner. Others do mechanical work for the group. Financial assistance is occasionally given. Individuals pray for others in the group....

Who does the teaching when you meet?

Mutiple people but primarily me. We are actively looking for qualified teachers but it is difficult when we are deliberate about how we "recruit".

Does your "church" financially support foreign missionaries?

Occassionally. The daughter of one couple was traveling abroad, and we provided assistance.

When you say you perform baptisms "when appropriate" do you mean you are seeing people come to Christ on a regular basis, you are baptizing them, discipling them, and your "church" is expanding?

First, "church" shouldn't be in quotes. It's insulting.

Second, we baptize when someone chooses to become a follower of Jesus. And our attendance number is growing, albeit very slowly. But, frankly, we don't care. If God chooses to add more members to our assembly, great! If not, we'll strive to be faithful with what we have been given.

We are also very intentional about not inviting folks we know have a current church home. Instead, we are focused on those who do not attend, especially those in our close geographic proximity.

Thank you for your answers.

*You meet one time every other week for the teaching of God's Word.  That must free you up to really serve.

*You seem to "serve one another" the same way the average IFB church does.

*You do most of the teaching......nuff said.

*You say, "We are actively looking for qualified teachers but it is difficult when we are deliberate about how we 'recruit'".  Just how do you "recruit" to find a teacher?

*So you don't really financially support any foreign missionaries.

*Surely if you are the lighthouse of your community you are baptizing on a somewhat regular basis.

I realize I am critical of you (as is the majority of the FFF).  Your hyper- cynical spirit creates this.  I picture you as someone who has had issues with every preacher with whom you have ever crossed paths.  I see you as someone who has caused trouble in every church you have attended.  "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh".

 

[RAIDER]

I don't recall anyone arguing otherwise. The church DID take care of their own (done better in the home church setting, IMHO) but they also helped take care of others.

After Pentecost where was that commanded?
Do you have some examples?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I don't recall anyone arguing otherwise. The church DID take care of their own (done better in the home church setting, IMHO) but they also helped take care of others.

After Pentecost where was that commanded?
Do you have some examples?

Do commands after Pentecost trump what Jesus taught?

 

[RAIDER]

I don't recall anyone arguing otherwise. The church DID take care of their own (done better in the home church setting, IMHO) but they also helped take care of others.

After Pentecost where was that commanded?
Do you have some examples?

Do commands after Pentecost trump what Jesus taught?

Jesus came teaching and preaching the gospel of the kingdom.  They crucified Him.  Because of His death, burial, and resurrection we now are able to enjoy Paul's gospel of grace.  The early church was started or empowered at Pentecost.  We are sent forth to preach Paul's gospel of grace.  The NT churches' time had begun.  Do we find any commands in the writings to the NT church about taking care of everyone or is the church to care for its own? 

 

[rsc2a]

Yes, I am a member of a local assembly.

Our assembly meets biweekly for formal teaching and sharing of communion. Various members also meet very frequently throughout the week as we serve one another as a part of our shared lives.

The members are all missionaries, and we are all equipped and sent.

We all disciple as an integrated part of our lives and relationships. When appropriate, we have also performed baptisms.

Where does your local assembly meet?

Lots of places.

However, formal teaching generally takes place at my home.

Do you meet twice weekly or once every two weeks?

Biweekly means every other week. And we are constantly meeting each other...it's just more formal every other week.

How do you "serve one another as part of your shared lives"?

Lots of ways. People take others into their homes. Some take others to dinner. Others do mechanical work for the group. Financial assistance is occasionally given. Individuals pray for others in the group....

Who does the teaching when you meet?

Mutiple people but primarily me. We are actively looking for qualified teachers but it is difficult when we are deliberate about how we "recruit".

Does your "church" financially support foreign missionaries?

Occassionally. The daughter of one couple was traveling abroad, and we provided assistance.

When you say you perform baptisms "when appropriate" do you mean you are seeing people come to Christ on a regular basis, you are baptizing them, discipling them, and your "church" is expanding?

First, "church" shouldn't be in quotes. It's insulting.

Second, we baptize when someone chooses to become a follower of Jesus. And our attendance number is growing, albeit very slowly. But, frankly, we don't care. If God chooses to add more members to our assembly, great! If not, we'll strive to be faithful with what we have been given.

We are also very intentional about not inviting folks we know have a current church home. Instead, we are focused on those who do not attend, especially those in our close geographic proximity.

Thank you for your answers.

*You meet one time every other week for the teaching of God's Word.  That must free you up to really serve.

First, I spent on average 20 hours just to prep for the teaching that I do. As far as other methods of serving, we are satisfied with the effort my family puts forth.

*You seem to "serve one another" the same way the average IFB church does.

I don't know or care what the average IFB church does. We are only responsible FOR ourselves. We are, however, responsible TO every other local body of believers.

*You do most of the teaching......nuff said.

What in the world is that supposed to mean?

*You say, "We are actively looking for qualified teachers but it is difficult when we are deliberate about how we 'recruit'".  Just how do you "recruit" to find a teacher?

We are intentional about not poaching from other churches. If you can tell me how to find other teachers while deliberately limiting your pool to people who have not regularly been a part of a local assembly that are both willing and qualified, I'm all ears.

*So you don't really financially support any foreign missionaries.

I explicitly started that we have. And, even if we haven't, so what? We serve as we feel called, not as others direct.

*Surely if you are the lighthouse of your community you are baptizing on a somewhat regular basis.

I don't know why one should made that assumption. Some plant. Some water. Some harvest.

I realize I am critical of you (as is the majority of the FFF).  Your hyper- cynical spirit creates this.

Am I critical of man worship and gimmicks instead of Christian community and service? Absolutely. Am I critical of a church that would cover for perverts and teach that wickedness is good? Absolutely.

I picture you as someone who has had issues with every preacher with whom you have ever crossed paths.  I see you as someone who has caused trouble in every church you have attended.  "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh".

I've been asked by one elder to leave one church. Interestingly, I also told them they should never have a certain guest speaker use the pulpit again after he referred to Methodists (and others) as God haters, a speaker they continue to invite. Even more interestingly, outside of the Mog's inner circle, I dint know of anyone who has stayed much past five years.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I don't know what's more amusing: that you think my view of the Church is unique or that you think the Mog had the right to tell others whether they can be a part of the eklessia.

Please, humor us all and explain to us your view of the church.  Also, tell us what your normal "church week" looks like.

My view of the Church? The Church consists off all called-out followers of Jesus and is purposed to be an active witness to the gospel as she seeks, through the everyday actions of her members, to be a royal priesthood fufilling its role as an incarnate means by which God is reconciling all things.

My church week? This question makes no sense with a proper understanding of the church instead of some Gnostic view that would separate the physical life from the spiritual life.

Are you a member of a local NT church?  Does your church have services?  Does your church send out missionaries?  Does your church baptize and disciple?

A church isn't about services: it is about service. It is about community with one another, provoking brethren to love and following Christ. The way rsc2a describes it is the better model for making it happen, though such community can form within and sometimes, despite a traditional format.

LIFE is about serving others. Don't attach THAT to "church". "Church" is a place to gather in worshiping God. The "church" has been made into far too many things it was never formed to be.

You are so right that, "church has been made into far too many things it was never formed to be."

The word church is understood by ordinary people as a building for religious meetings, while the Bible word was ekklesia and did not mean a building at all, but rather a called out assembly or congregation as generally found in most English translations in the 1500s.

Ekklesia was a people not a place of worship.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I don't recall anyone arguing otherwise. The church DID take care of their own (done better in the home church setting, IMHO) but they also helped take care of others.

After Pentecost where was that commanded?
Do you have some examples?

Do commands after Pentecost trump what Jesus taught?

Jesus came teaching and preaching the gospel of the kingdom.  They crucified Him.  Because of His death, burial, and resurrection we now are able to enjoy Paul's gospel of grace.  The early church was started or empowered at Pentecost.  We are sent forth to preach Paul's gospel of grace.  The NT churches' time had begun.  Do we find any commands in the writings to the NT church about taking care of everyone or is the church to care for its own?

So when Jesus told His disciples after His ascension to "teach (the world, including Gentiles) everything I have taught you", He meant to turn theological teaching over to Paul instead of actually following what Jesus personally taught them. In other words, the servant IS better than the master. Got it.

 

[RAIDER]

So when Jesus told His disciples after His ascension to "teach (the world, including Gentiles) everything I have taught you", He meant to turn theological teaching over to Paul instead of actually following what Jesus personally taught them. In other words, the servant IS better than the master. Got it.

The disciples eventually did what Christ commanded them.  Paul did what Christ commanded him.  The two blend perfectly in Christ's plan. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So when Jesus told His disciples after His ascension to "teach (the world, including Gentiles) everything I have taught you", He meant to turn theological teaching over to Paul instead of actually following what Jesus personally taught them. In other words, the servant IS better than the master. Got it.

The disciples eventually did what Christ commanded them.  Paul did what Christ commanded him.  The two blend perfectly in Christ's plan.

But you asked:

After Pentecost where was that commanded?

What you are suggesting is that Paul's silence (since he is the primary penman of the NT after Pentecost) trumps Jesus' clear teachings. Then you said in another post:

We are sent forth to preach Paul's gospel of grace.

Who "sent us forth" to send Paul's gospel? Jesus sure didn't. The Great Commission was about HIS gospel/teaching, not Paul's.

The disciples did do what Jesus taught. Paul seemed to do what he claimed Jesus told him to. So how do either of those things apply to us? Why do we negate the 11 Apostles' teaching which Jesus said to perpetuate to the Gentiles and trump it with Pauline theology which was not taught by Christ?

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

 

[RAIDER]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

 

[RAIDER]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

Could it be that caring for those outside the church is a job for each of us individually rather than a "church job"?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

Could it be that caring for those outside the church is a job for each of us individually rather than a "church job"?

Both individual and corporate.

 

[RAIDER]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

Could it be that caring for those outside the church is a job for each of us individually rather than a "church job"?

Both individual and corporate.

Can you find a corporate command? 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

Could it be that caring for those outside the church is a job for each of us individually rather than a "church job"?

Both individual and corporate.

Can you find a corporate command? 

Isn't a "command".... generally "corporate? When Paul dealt with the local assemblies.... he wasn't dealing with 1,000 seperate "churches" in a city like there are today. He was dealing with corporate issues within that local environment.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Many good people who love God with all their heart believe the two blend. I disagree but regardless, let's say that is true. Why then are you expecting reinforced teaching from Paul instead of taking Jesus' recorded words as authoritative enough? Why does Paul's teaching HAVE to corroborate Jesus' teaching to make Jesus' teaching applicable to today's Gentiles? Jesus said it, Paul was silent about it so because of Paul's silence (which he really wasn't anyway), we can ignore what Jesus taught. That seems to be what you are saying.

Paul was not silent on the topic of the church caring for other believers.  You see it everywhere.

I didn't say otherwise. Paul was (relatively) silent on caring for those outside the church whereas Jesus made no distinction by teaching to care for the oppressed, widow, orphan, sick, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, homeless, etc.

Could it be that caring for those outside the church is a job for each of us individually rather than a "church job"?

Both individual and corporate.

Can you find a corporate command? 

These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, ?Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ?The kingdom of heaven is at hand.? 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Another version of the same command, this time mentions breaking into pairs, but still corporate command:

And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff?no bread, no bag, no money in their belts?but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. And he said to them, ?Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.? So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.

After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. And he said to them, ?The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ?Peace be to this house!? And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick in it and say to them, ?The kingdom of God has come near to you.? But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say, ?Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.? I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

And Jesus came and said to them, ?All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have taught you.

And Acts mentions that the Apostles carried out that command:

Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon's Portico. None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high esteem. And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, so that they even carried out the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, that as Peter came by oat least his shadow might fall on some of them. The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

 

[RAIDER]

Isn't a "command".... generally "corporate? When Paul dealt with the local assemblies.... he wasn't dealing with 1,000 seperate "churches" in a city like there are today. He was dealing with corporate issues within that local environment.

Correct.  For example, let's say there were 2 people in an accident.  One was an employee of my company.  I did not know the other individual.  I could tell my employees, "The company is going to give $x to help our fellow employee.  If you or I want to give to help the other fellow we will do so individually".  One was a group giving.  The other was an individual giving.

Is the local church commanded to help and care for their own, or are they also told to care for those outside? 

 

[RAIDER]

These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, ?Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ?The kingdom of heaven is at hand.? 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Another version of the same command, this time mentions breaking into pairs, but still corporate command:

And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff?no bread, no bag, no money in their belts?but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. And he said to them, ?Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.? So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.

After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. And he said to them, ?The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ?Peace be to this house!? And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick in it and say to them, ?The kingdom of God has come near to you.? But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say, ?Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.? I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

And Jesus came and said to them, ?All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have taught you.

And Acts mentions that the Apostles carried out that command:

Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles. And they were all together in Solomon's Portico. None of the rest dared join them, but the people held them in high esteem. And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, so that they even carried out the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, that as Peter came by oat least his shadow might fall on some of them. The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed.

These were Apostolic Gifts.  Jesus was sending the disciples to preach that the Kingdom was at hand.  Notice that he sent them to the house of Israel.  At this time the disciples had no desire to preach anything to a Gentile.  Praise God that we have moved past this and because of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ we have the gospel of grace. 

 

[RAIDER]

Does the church have a corporate mandate to give to the United Way, the local rescue mission, a need at the local high school, an individual in town that has experienced a tragedy, etc?  Or, would these things be something individuals from the church would help with as the Lord lays it on their hearts.

Meanwhile, a widow lady at the church needs her roof repaired, a Christian family needs groceries because the husband lost his job, a Christian family needs funds to travel to a hospital with a sick child, etc.  Does the church have a corporate mandate to help with these needs?

 

[rsc2a]

So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. - Gal 6:10