Hot Air?

[Twisted]

​

 

[bgwilkinson]

Of course this is evangelistically speaking. If there was 280,000 saved where were they?
I could believe 2,800 over decades, but 280,000 sounds like a professional evangelist trying for more bookings.

 

[Twisted]

Of course this is evangelistically speaking. If there was 280,000 saved where were they?
I could believe 2,800 over decades, but 280,000 sounds like a professional evangelist trying for more bookings.

You must be an evangelist trying for more bookings.

You just inflated 260,000 to 280,000.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Of course this is evangelistically speaking. If there was 280,000 saved where were they?
I could believe 2,800 over decades, but 280,000 sounds like a professional evangelist trying for more bookings.

You must be an evangelist trying for more bookings.

You just inflated 260,000 to 280,000.

See, that's how it's done, fast and loose with the facts.  ;D ;D

 

[sword]

Of course this is evangelistically speaking. If there was 280,000 saved where were they?
I could believe 2,800 over decades, but 280,000 sounds like a professional evangelist trying for more bookings.

You must be an evangelist trying for more bookings.
You just inflated 260,000 to 280,000.

See, that's how it's done, fast and loose with the facts.  ;D ;D

Interesting, you had no problems with those numbers or anything else nor did to speak out about them for over 40 years as a deacon. That is until you got your feelings hurt and now you?re the biggest critic of all things Hammond. You would not criticize Hyles or Schapp to their face, but now that they are gone your the expert in everything they did wrong.

I would get it if you had no idea what was happening behind the scenes, but you have said otherwise. You knew about all the scandal, all the corruption, all the miss-management, all the cover up, everything and yet you said nothing and did nothing. 

Sounds a little like sour grapes.

 

[brainisengaged]

I believe Sword makes a valid point. As a lay person at FBC, I knew none of the behind-the-scenes machinations, yet  I felt dirty for having been there and I felt so guilty for not having had discernment.  I needed to step away for healing and soul-searching and to gain perspective. Surely the honorable thing for any staff member or deacon -- who were well aware of what was going on through the years but stood mutely by-- would have been to resign . It was infuriating, in the interim period,  to have the church run by the very people who were aware of and / or were even open to the covering up of the scandalous goings-on. Eddie Lapina was Jack Schaap's chief toady -- and then he became interim pastor! ...deacons who had not the discernment or Christian manhood to stand up to or speak out against JS wrote the new church constitution  and acted as if they had nothing of which to be ashamed. Hindsight is 20/20, but anyone who was a deacon then should take a break from the deacon board and Eddie Lapina should spend some time as a lay person. Yes, I still feel strongly about this.

 

[WESLEY]

I'm sure you have answered this, but @BRAINISENGAGED , are you still @ FBCH?

 

[brainisengaged]

No, I tried to stay at FBC for a while. First, for a year after it all broke with JS. Give it a year, see how it goes and how it is handled. Then, for a year with Pastor Wilkerson. Finally, after having given it all that time and much prayer,  I left. I had to get a different perspective that I could not get while there. I had to get out of a place that I'd given 25 years to and had taught me to follow a cult of personality. I had to figure out what was wrong with my Christianity / personality that I could have been so blind for so long. There, I could not see the forest for the trees. And in the end, I realized I am not married to FBC. It is not "til death do us part". My cup now overfloweth, I am in a very healthy church and am being restored piece by piece!

 

[Fresh Air]

Blew it up and read every word. With the perspective of middle age, 20 years pastoring, and nearly 30 years past the date of the publication so much is so clearly seen. And sadly seen. The over-emphasis on numbers, the pragmatism, the cult of personality, the exaltation of people too young to handle it, and a superstructure that looked impressive but was being hollowed out all the while...

...yet, for all that, I am grateful for every soul who heard the Gospel and genuinely came to Christ.

One of the most amazing things about God is that He can use such flawed vessels (including me) to pour out His grace and glory.

 

[bgwilkinson]

It is truly amazing that God has chosen to use sinners to do His work.

 

[BALAAM]

No, I tried to stay at FBC for a while. First, for a year after it all broke with JS. Give it a year, see how it goes and how it is handled. Then, for a year with Pastor Wilkerson. Finally, after having given it all that time and much prayer,  I left. I had to get a different perspective that I could not get while there. I had to get out of a place that I'd given 25 years to and had taught me to follow a cult of personality. I had to figure out what was wrong with my Christianity / personality that I could have been so blind for so long. There, I could not see the forest for the trees. And in the end, I realized I am not married to FBC. It is not "til death do us part". My cup now overfloweth, I am in a very healthy church and am being restored piece by piece!

And I am in the same church. I had been very faithful at fbch and ministries, etc. but struggled to go for several years. I love going to church again!

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

All those prayers. I'm afraid the 1-2-3 deal has made many a two fold child of hell. If they even remember doing it though, that's what most trust... a prayer..... Sounds a bit Catholic to me.

Yes, I have been listening to Paul Washer.

 

[prophet]

"Who's a closeted lesbian at FBCH" cheat sheet?

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Phooey-dini]

I believe Sword makes a valid point. As a lay person at FBC, I knew none of the behind-the-scenes machinations, yet  I felt dirty for having been there and I felt so guilty for not having had discernment.  I needed to step away for healing and soul-searching and to gain perspective. Surely the honorable thing for any staff member or deacon -- who were well aware of what was going on through the years but stood mutely by-- would have been to resign . It was infuriating, in the interim period,  to have the church run by the very people who were aware of and / or were even open to the covering up of the scandalous goings-on. Eddie Lapina was Jack Schaap's chief toady -- and then he became interim pastor! ...deacons who had not the discernment or Christian manhood to stand up to or speak out against JS wrote the new church constitution  and acted as if they had nothing of which to be ashamed. Hindsight is 20/20, but anyone who was a deacon then should take a break from the deacon board and Eddie Lapina should spend some time as a lay person. Yes, I still feel strongly about this.

That's a good word, BIE! [emoji1319][emoji41]


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[Phooey-dini]

"Who's a closeted lesbian at FBCH" cheat sheet?

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

?????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Walt]

I believe Sword makes a valid point. As a lay person at FBC, I knew none of the behind-the-scenes machinations, yet  I felt dirty for having been there and I felt so guilty for not having had discernment.  I needed to step away for healing and soul-searching and to gain perspective. Surely the honorable thing for any staff member or deacon -- who were well aware of what was going on through the years but stood mutely by-- would have been to resign . It was infuriating, in the interim period,  to have the church run by the very people who were aware of and / or were even open to the covering up of the scandalous goings-on. Eddie Lapina was Jack Schaap's chief toady -- and then he became interim pastor! ...deacons who had not the discernment or Christian manhood to stand up to or speak out against JS wrote the new church constitution  and acted as if they had nothing of which to be ashamed. Hindsight is 20/20, but anyone who was a deacon then should take a break from the deacon board and Eddie Lapina should spend some time as a lay person. Yes, I still feel strongly about this.

I was in a similar position (just not at FBCH).  Pastor was a HAC grad, and "we the people" were not taught the Bible - we were just to come to church, tithe, and go soul-winning.

Most of the people who were "won" were, like the Phoster Club converts, merely manipulated into saying a prayer so that our activity sheets looked good.  We had to do (and were led to do) massive manipulation even to get them to come to church, and do even more manipulation to get them "down the aisle" - in Bible Christianity, people who were saved wanted to learn about God, and wanted to do right, and wanted fellowship.

We were dense; it took many years to awaken to the errors - first came an awareness of the lack general lack of spirituality among the supposed "cream of the crop", and from that, we began to notice more errors and finally left.

 

[Walt]

Blew it up and read every word. With the perspective of middle age, 20 years pastoring, and nearly 30 years past the date of the publication so much is so clearly seen. And sadly seen. The over-emphasis on numbers, the pragmatism, the cult of personality, the exaltation of people too young to handle it, and a superstructure that looked impressive but was being hollowed out all the while...

...yet, for all that, I am grateful for every soul who heard the Gospel and genuinely came to Christ.

True, but I fear the numbers are minuscule - someone followed up 1,000 Phoster Club "converts" and NONE of them had THE SLIGHTEST interest in anything spiritual. So, maybe 5 in 10,000?  Yes, if any were genuinely saved, PTL, but this is not the way to do it!