How do you interpret I Samuel 26:11?

[Citadel of Truth]

I Samuel 26:11 "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed...

Is David setting a precedent here that God's leader (God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul) can lead with impunity? That the God-called pastor is untouchable? That he can rule and lead the church without being questioned? That he is 100% accountable to God and God alone?

I, personally, do not see it this way; although, I've heard many use this verse to assert that exact mindset.

I believe that the principle involved is this, God will most certainly deal with the anointed leader who sins and He may very well use you or me to deal with him. But, like David, we must be very certain to determine whether or not God is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed." If He is not leading us in that fashion, I think we'd better leave it to God and those whom God does lead to deal with the errant leader.

If he is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed," then we would be wise to remember another important biblical principle:  "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1).

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

I guess it depends on whether you think a pastor is the Messiah (Annointed = ???????? ma?sh??yach, Messiah).

In my not entirely humble opinion Saul's death was a type of Messiah's death. It was not to be the result of a violent attack (the spear of verse 8) but by the means determined by Jehovah.

 

[Twisted]

That the God-called pastor is untouchable? That he can rule and lead the church without being questioned? That he is 100% accountable to God and God alone?

Those myths are, of course, perpetuated by pastors.  Of course, they are total nonsense.

 

[brianb]

All believers have an anointing (1 John 2:20). The context of 1 Samuel 26:11 refers specifically to a king but it could in a broader sense refer to a priest or a prophet. 

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I guess it depends on whether you think a pastor is the Messiah (Annointed = ???????? ma?sh??yach, Messiah).

In my not entirely humble opinion Saul's death was a type of Messiah's death. It was not to be the result of a violent attack (the spear of verse 8) but by the means determined by Jehovah.

By your reasoning, I guess David thought Saul was the Messiah?  You failed to give the complete meaning of the word. " ???????? ma?sh??yach -  usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint)." So, no, it has nothing whatsoever to do with thinking that a pastor is the Messiah. It has everything to do with thinking that the pastor is "the LORD's anointed" and therefore untouchable if this passage is taken out of context. 

As to your other opinion, I find it interesting and definitely food for thought. Although, it begs the question, was it Jehovah's will that Saul die by his own hand? In your not so humble opinion, of course. 

 

[Citadel of Truth]

That the God-called pastor is untouchable? That he can rule and lead the church without being questioned? That he is 100% accountable to God and God alone?

Those myths are, of course, perpetuated by pastors.  Of course, they are total nonsense.

I concur 100%. Although, this myth is a very common myth, especially in IFBX circles. It's really sad, when you think about it.

In your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

By your reasoning, I guess David thought Saul was the Messiah?

Wow! You have a serious reading comprehension problem! No, David did not think Saul was the Messiah. He knew who Saul was. Saul was the king. The Hebrew word means "anointed."

You failed to give the complete meaning of the word. " ???????? ma?sh??yach -  usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint)."

Yes, we all know that. Thank you Captain Obvious.

So, no, it has nothing whatsoever to do with thinking that a pastor is the Messiah.

Go back and read what I wrote. You do understand the purpose of an "if then" proposition, don't you?

It has everything to do with thinking that the pastor is "the LORD's anointed" and therefore untouchable if this passage is taken out of context.

Yeah. We know. Again.

As to your other opinion, I find it interesting and definitely food for thought. Although, it begs the question, was it Jehovah's will that Saul die by his own hand? In your not so humble opinion, of course. 

It was God's will that Saul died exactly as he did. Duh!

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Wow! Cool your jets, Gramps! You're the one who pigeon-holed the definition, not me. Perhaps you need to carefully consider what you post so that you don't have to backtrack when corrected.

Let me remind you that you said

I guess it depends on whether you think a pastor is the Messiah (Annointed = ???????? ma?sh??yach, Messiah).

And then,

It was God's will that Saul died exactly as he did. Duh!

So, you're saying that Saul was in the perfect will of God when he took his own life...interesting.

Now, let me ask again, in your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

 

[Twisted]

In your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

You answered it yourself when you wrote, "(God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul)".  David knew that.

Now, when God has Samuel anoint pastors, then maybe we can change our thinking.

 

[Ransom]

Saul was the legitimate king, and David refused to assassinate him. Simple as that.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

Wow! Cool your jets, Gramps! You're the one who pigeon-holed the definition, not me.

Actually I didn't. I stated the definition of the Hebrew as it applies to Messianic prophecy.

Perhaps you need to carefully consider what you post so that you don't have to backtrack when corrected.

Perhaps you need to carefully read with understanding those things I wrote.

So, you're saying that Saul was in the perfect will of God when he took his own life...interesting.

And again you display an appalling lack of reading comprehension. I said that Saul died exactly as God decreed. God is Sovereign (in case nobody ever told you). All that happens is either the result of his Decretal Will or His Permissive Will.

Now, let me ask again, in your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

That Saul should not be killed according to the will of man, but according to the will of God.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Saul was the legitimate king, and David refused to assassinate him. Simple as that.

I do not disagree, but in my mind it?s not that simple. When you consider that David?s ?heart smote him? when he snuck up behind Saul and cut off the bottom of his garment, it would appear that he considered  things far beneath assassination to be stretching his hand against the Lord?s anointed.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

In your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

You answered it yourself when you wrote, "(God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul)".  David knew that.

Now, when God has Samuel anoint pastors, then maybe we can change our thinking.

Do you think the anointing of the Holy Spirt would be the New Testament equivalent of the Old Testament anointing with oil?

 

[Twisted]

In your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

You answered it yourself when you wrote, "(God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul)".  David knew that.

Now, when God has Samuel anoint pastors, then maybe we can change our thinking.

Do you think the anointing of the Holy Spirt would be the New Testament equivalent of the Old Testament anointing with oil?

No.  We are all "anointed" the same.  How much you yield is up to you.

Let me add this.  I was at Lancaster Baptist for their conference.  I don't remember the preacher but Chappell introduced him by saying he had a "real anointing".  I thought I would throw up.  That's the same kind of tripe they use to say "touch not God's anointed".

 

[Citadel of Truth]

In your opinion, what principle was David stating, by which he governed his actions, when he said, "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed"?

You answered it yourself when you wrote, "(God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul)".  David knew that.

Now, when God has Samuel anoint pastors, then maybe we can change our thinking.

Do you think the anointing of the Holy Spirt would be the New Testament equivalent of the Old Testament anointing with oil?

No.  We are all "anointed" the same.  How much you yield is up to you.

Let me add this.  I was at Lancaster Baptist for their conference.  I don't remember the preacher but Chappell introduced him by saying he had a "real anointing".  I thought I would throw up.  That's the same kind of tripe they use to say "touch not God's anointed".

Again, I do not disagree. I think that the anointing of the Holy Spirit is for all Christian. John told us, "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him (I John 2:27).

But, in another sense, there may be a special anointing for God-called preachers and teachers. Paul said, "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God (II Cor. 1:21).

For the record, I am no fan of Chappell. He would fit in the category of the "untouchable," "unaccountable" men of God in his opinion.

 

[Anchor]

David was affirming in his practice what he believed in his heart--Gen. 9:5-6 followed by the specific applications given in the Law--that God had established human mechanisms (government, justice systems, etc.) to execute judgment, human mechanisms that he was not at liberty to usurp.  It is one of the indicators of his being a "man after [God's] own heart"--he believed God and His Word even when it might have been in his own best interest to usurp the God ordained process.

 

[Ransom]

I do not disagree, but in my mind it?s not that simple. When you consider that David?s ?heart smote him? when he snuck up behind Saul and cut off the bottom of his garment, it would appear that he considered  things far beneath assassination to be stretching his hand against the Lord?s anointed.

There's no mystery in that passage, either. As David explains to Saul, Saul's people were telling him David wished him harm, yet David had a prime opportunity to kill him, but didn't. The corner of Saul's robe was proof.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I Samuel 26:11 "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed...

Is David setting a precedent here that God's leader (God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul) can lead with impunity? That the God-called pastor is untouchable? That he can rule and lead the church without being questioned? That he is 100% accountable to God and God alone?

I, personally, do not see it this way; although, I've heard many use this verse to assert that exact mindset.

I believe that the principle involved is this, God will most certainly deal with the anointed leader who sins and He may very well use you or me to deal with him. But, like David, we must be very certain to determine whether or not God is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed." If He is not leading us in that fashion, I think we'd better leave it to God and those whom God does lead to deal with the errant leader.

If he is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed," then we would be wise to remember another important biblical principle:  "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1).

It is very evident from this scripture that David would one day pastor North Valley Baptist Church.

 

[Saved by Grace]

Saul was the legitimate king, and David refused to assassinate him. Simple as that.

Just my thoughts ( i know im late to the party)

Believers have an anointing so to speak

and i believe pastors have an anointing ( or calling or blessing ) so to speak

but neither are above the Bible and should be held equally accountable to live it out  as Bible  commands

 

[Walt]

I Samuel 26:11 "The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD'S anointed...

Is David setting a precedent here that God's leader (God Himself had Samuel anoint Saul) can lead with impunity? That the God-called pastor is untouchable? That he can rule and lead the church without being questioned? That he is 100% accountable to God and God alone?

I, personally, do not see it this way; although, I've heard many use this verse to assert that exact mindset.

I believe that the principle involved is this, God will most certainly deal with the anointed leader who sins and He may very well use you or me to deal with him. But, like David, we must be very certain to determine whether or not God is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed." If He is not leading us in that fashion, I think we'd better leave it to God and those whom God does lead to deal with the errant leader.

If he is leading us to "stretch out our hand against the LORD's anointed," then we would be wise to remember another important biblical principle:  "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1).

First, let us consider anointing; in the Old Testament, kings, prophets, and priests were anointed.  Jesus Christ is "The Anointed One" because He combines all of those offices.

Believers are all anointed with the Holy Spirit, and we have been made kings and priests unto God, the Scriptures tell us.

It is invalid for the pastor of a church to claim that he is equivalent to Moses or to Saul (or any king of Israel).  The office of pastor is not the same, and he doesn't get to get away with whatever he likes by claiming this verse as some kind of cover.

Moreover, touching God's anointed" refers to killing Saul.  David freely criticized Saul's unjust (and thus un-Biblical) behavior.

I do believe that pastors should be respected, but they do should not be worshiped. I have my own responsibility before God to ensure that they are not preaching wrong doctrine.