How does tainted "religion" affect your worship perspective?

[ALAYMAN]

I am fairly conservative in all realms of my life (sports, politics, religion, finance, etc), and though I don't generally prefer CCM music, I don't hold to hyper-seperatistic or overly militant objections to any specific genre of music (opera and rap excluded ). I happened on to the song that I just linked to in the "What are you listening to right now" thread and realized that though it is theologically sound that those (Hillsong) associated with it have plenty of baggage (sex scandals, apostatsy, pentecostal leaning, prosperity associations, etc) and it bothered me a little that I liked the song. Not long ago on the FFF this sort of thing was lightly bantered about regarding Ray Boltz and some of his "decent" songs. I feel the same way now when I hear anything spoken by Ravi Zacharias. He spoke boatloads of truth and I greatly admired his ministry, but his legacy is tainted, and it grieves me a little to have even minor associations with his teachings. How do you deal with these sorts of issues in your personal worship and feelings towards those that have (vastly) differing or stained testimony?

 

[voicecrying]

King David had his sex scandal and people still sing psalms he penned. If the lyrics to a song are true, I have no problem with the song no matter who penned it or performs it. No matter how much I would like to believe it to be true, I am not 100% theologically accurate or sinlessly perfect, so I don't expect anyone else to be either and try not to turn my nose up for either of those categories.

I guess I have pretty low expectations of others. Must be why I like this forum so much!

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

He spoke boatloads of truth and I greatly admired his ministry, but his legacy is tainted, and it grieves me a little to have even minor associations with his teachings. How do you deal with these sorts of issues in your personal worship and feelings towards those that have (vastly) differing or stained testimony?

It’s pretty simple in my mind, and I’ll answer your question with a question: Is there a week that ever goes by that you don’t commit at least one sin, even if a very minor one? As a preacher, would you expect to never stand behind the pulpit unless you had gone that entire previous week without committing one sin? I wouldn’t expect it from you or any other pastor. (Granted, I wouldn’t expect to sit before you if you’re going out of your way to live a sinful lifestyle, and I’d expect that on average, you probably would sin less than me!)

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I am fairly conservative in all realms of my life (sports, politics, religion, finance, etc), and though I don't generally prefer CCM music, I don't hold to hyper-seperatistic or overly militant objections to any specific genre of music (opera and rap excluded ). I happened on to the song that I just linked to in the "What are you listening to right now" thread and realized that though it is theologically sound that those (Hillsong) associated with it have plenty of baggage (sex scandals, apostatsy, pentecostal leaning, prosperity associations, etc) and it bothered me a little that I liked the song. Not long ago on the FFF this sort of thing was lightly bantered about regarding Ray Boltz and some of his "decent" songs. I feel the same way now when I hear anything spoken by Ravi Zacharias. He spoke boatloads of truth and I greatly admired his ministry, but his legacy is tainted, and it grieves me a little to have even minor associations with his teachings. How do you deal with these sorts of issues in your personal worship and feelings towards those that have (vastly) differing or stained testimony?

I used to play a really cool instrumental acoustic guitar rendition of "For Those Tears I Died" (Marsha Stevens, Born-Again Lesbian). Really loved the melody and harmonic texturing and the song as well. This was before I knew anything about Marsha Steven's personal life and her activism within the LGBT community and realized that the song now carried a great deal of baggage and is likely a great stumbling block for others. Same goes for many of the Ray Boltz songs I used to love.

I will not dismiss a song simply because it originates from Hillsong, Bethel, or Elevation but I will take a hard look at the doctrine and if possible, I will find another source where perhaps another artist has recorded and published their arrangement so that the CCLI fees paid by our Church goes to them and not to the one promoting heresy.

There is some other material out there that is just "Creepy." It is not that the doctrine is particularly bad but something just doesn't seem right. A particular example of this is the "Hot Bibles" clip from the "Way International" group. Listened to a few of their other songs that popped up and their musicianship is actually pretty good but they are just way creepy! I get similar vibes when I listen to some of the vintage CCM pioneers like "All Saved Freak Band" and others. Larry Norman is still a "guilty pleasure" at times even though the man proved himself to be an absolute loon!

 

[AverageJoe]

I am fairly conservative in all realms of my life (sports, politics, religion, finance, etc), and though I don't generally prefer CCM music, I don't hold to hyper-seperatistic or overly militant objections to any specific genre of music (opera and rap excluded ). I happened on to the song that I just linked to in the "What are you listening to right now" thread and realized that though it is theologically sound that those (Hillsong) associated with it have plenty of baggage (sex scandals, apostatsy, pentecostal leaning, prosperity associations, etc) and it bothered me a little that I liked the song. Not long ago on the FFF this sort of thing was lightly bantered about regarding Ray Boltz and some of his "decent" songs. I feel the same way now when I hear anything spoken by Ravi Zacharias. He spoke boatloads of truth and I greatly admired his ministry, but his legacy is tainted, and it grieves me a little to have even minor associations with his teachings. How do you deal with these sorts of issues in your personal worship and feelings towards those that have (vastly) differing or stained testimony?

As one of my former pastors used to say "Take the meat, leave the bone." Nobody in this life is perfect. Even pastors, evangelists, and those in places of leadership whom we admire have their faults and failings. Every single person that God called into his service seemed to fail at one point or another, yet God still loved them, guided and directed them, and continued to care for them in ways we as humans probably wouldn't have cared for them. I have to say that in all honesty, I still have some of my Hyles-written and published books. There is SOME good information in them. There also are some very incorrect teachings written in them. I have some things from the Ravi Zaccharias ministries, too. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's called balance and common sense.

 

[Ransom]

Larry Norman is still a "guilty pleasure" at times even though the man proved himself to be an absolute loon!

Larry Norman wasn't "tainted religon," at least--he was pretty standard Pentecostal, for the most part. It was his personal character that was wanting. (I met him twice, in the mid-90s--he did not strike me as a particularly friendly person.) But so far as I can tell, he was completely sincere in wanting to bring people to Jesus.

 

[Ransom]

How do you deal with these sorts of issues in your personal worship and feelings towards those that have (vastly) differing or stained testimony?

I would treat every song on a case-by-case basis. Many composers have written beautiful and godly music even though I wouldn't subscribe to their particular beliefs. Matt Maher is a Roman Catholic, but there's nothing about his song "Your Grace Is Enough" that I find objectionable. Songs such as "All Creatures of Our God and King," "O Sacred Head Now Wounded," and "Faith of Our Fathers" were also written by Catholics. "Nearer, My God, to Thee" was written by a Unitarian. And there are a lot of Charismatic songwriters, obviously.

When it comes to the really out-there churches with big music ministries and their own labels (e.g. Bethel, Jesus Culture, Hillsong, etc.), they might have a few suitable songs, but on the whole, I think we can do better. My church has put a fair number of Hillsong choruses in the rotation in the past, but these days tends to prefer Sovereign Grace and Getty Music.

I will occasionally visit churches that really like the more outre charismatic stuff like Bethel or Jesus Culture, most of whose songs I find vapid and very much of the Jesus-is-my-boyfriend variety. At those times, I'll politely stand with the rest of the congregation, but opt not to sing words I would rather not have in my mouth.

 

[AverageJoe]

Larry Norman wasn't "tainted religon," at least--he was pretty standard Pentecostal, for the most part. It was his personal character that was wanting. (I met him twice, in the mid-90s--he did not strike me as a particularly friendly person.) But so far as I can tell, he was completely sincere in wanting to bring people to Jesus.

I believe he was as well. I got to meet him, and though a little rough around the edges IMHO, he was a genuine believer.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

I had to google the guy…never heard of Larry Norman.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Larry Norman wasn't "tainted religon," at least--he was pretty standard Pentecostal, for the most part. It was his personal character that was wanting. (I met him twice, in the mid-90s--he did not strike me as a particularly friendly person.) But so far as I can tell, he was completely sincere in wanting to bring people to Jesus.

I have never met Larry Norman personally but reports I have heard (from many sources), he is the IFBx counterpart to the Pentecostal/Charismatic crowd which is already "out there" as far as Pastoral and Ecclesiastical authority are concerned. He stole his best buddy's wife away from him for crying out loud (Randy Stonehill) but then I guess you could say the same of Eric Clapton but at least Eric does not profess Christianity and he admits he was seriously messed up at the time too. I don't doubt his sincerity but I guess we would have to say the the same regarding the two "Jacky Boys" of Hammond, IN right?

 

[Teri in NC]

I used to play a really cool instrumental acoustic guitar rendition of "For Those Tears I Died" (Marsha Stevens, Born-Again Lesbian). Really loved the melody and harmonic texturing and the song as well. This was before I knew anything about Marsha Steven's personal life and her activism within the LGBT community and realized that the song now carried a great deal of baggage and is likely a great stumbling block for others. Same goes for many of the Ray Boltz songs I used to love.

I will not dismiss a song simply because it originates from Hillsong, Bethel, or Elevation but I will take a hard look at the doctrine and if possible, I will find another source where perhaps another artist has recorded and published their arrangement so that the CCLI fees paid by our Church goes to them and not to the one promoting heresy.

There is some other material out there that is just "Creepy." It is not that the doctrine is particularly bad but something just doesn't seem right. A particular example of this is the "Hot Bibles" clip from the "Way International" group. Listened to a few of their other songs that popped up and their musicianship is actually pretty good but they are just way creepy! I get similar vibes when I listen to some of the vintage CCM pioneers like "All Saved Freak Band" and others. Larry Norman is still a "guilty pleasure" at times even though the man proved himself to be an absolute loon!

And now I am going to sleep singing every single word to "For Those Tears I Died" and have not thought of that song in decades.

Thanks Baptist Renegade.

 

[abcaines]

I had to google the guy…never heard of Larry Norman.

You are a young pup, aren't you?

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

You are a young pup, aren't you?

I don’t know about “young,” but early 40s.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I suppose this comes down to the matter of an individual’s conscience. I too subscribe to the general principle of “chew the meat and spit out the bones”, but it seems to me that a person can find plenty of boneless chicken with a minor amount of selectivity, patience, and discretion.

 

[Ransom]

I had to google the guy…never heard of Larry Norman.

*sigh* Children.

 

[abcaines]

I suppose this comes down to the matter of an individual’s conscience. I too subscribe to the general principle of “chew the meat and spit out the bones”, but it seems to me that a person can find plenty of boneless chicken with a minor amount of selectivity, patience, and discretion.

I regret that I have only one official like for this post!