How the Trick was Performed

This part is for the benefit of OBC students.  If any of my former students are out there, feel free to contact me at Threeofu@hotmail.com

I'm not sure who said that if you want to build a big church, pick a fight with someone. I THINK that Jack Hyles quoted that in an early work.

When Jim Vineyard arrived in Oklahoma City, he immediately went after the pornography sellers, and his church grew rapidly. But it was not because of soul-winning. It was because Godly Southern Baptists, along with a few Godly Nazarenes, wanted to do something with their lives. And baptisms abounded, with most Sunday services having at least one.

The problem was that most of those adult baptisms were converts of the staff, not Vineyard. He drove us on, with penalties if we didn't have converts to walk the aisle and get baptized. But I do not recall Jim ever having one of his own converts baptized. The college students, as Godly a lot as I ever met, brought in converts and bus kids to be baptized, but Jim couldn't do it himself.
 
Vince Massi said:
This part is for the benefit of OBC students.  If any of my former students are out there, feel free to contact me at Threeofu@hotmail.com

I'm not sure who said that if you want to build a big church, pick a fight with someone. I THINK that Jack Hyles quoted that in an early work.

When Jim Vineyard arrived in Oklahoma City, he immediately went after the pornography sellers, and his church grew rapidly. But it was not because of soul-winning. It was because Godly Southern Baptists, along with a few Godly Nazarenes, wanted to do something with their lives. And baptisms abounded, with most Sunday services having at least one.

The problem was that most of those adult baptisms were converts of the staff, not Vineyard. He drove us on, with penalties if we didn't have converts to walk the aisle and get baptized. But I do not recall Jim ever having one of his own converts baptized. The college students, as Godly a lot as I ever met, brought in converts and bus kids to be baptized, but Jim couldn't do it himself.
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I remember that for years it was bragged that not a week went by the 30 years that Dr. Vineyard was there that there wasnt at least 1 saved and 1 baptized. I remember it being a badge of honor. But for me as I got older it was one of the big reason that I realized something was wrong.
 
Two events occured, and I cannot remember which one came first.

My wife and I were attending the Sunday evening service, when I suddenly realized that more than half of the choir were staff, college, or their families. We weren't allowed to look around while Jim preached, but I carefully shot a few glances around the auditórium. Attendance was way down from when we had started attending. And a good chunk of the people in the pews were staff, college, or their families.

At HAC, Jim would have us whooping and hollering when he preached. But in Oklahoma, his sermons were boring. Jim wasn't succeeding.
 
Vince Massi said:
Two events occured, and I cannot remember which one came first.

My wife and I were attending the Sunday evening service, when I suddenly realized that more than half of the choir were staff, college, or their families. We weren't allowed to look around while Jim preached, but I carefully shot a few glances around the auditórium. Attendance was way down from when we had started attending. And a good chunk of the people in the pews were staff, college, or their families.

At HAC, Jim would have us whooping and hollering when he preached. But in Oklahoma, his sermons were boring. Jim wasn't succeeding.
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Obviously the second came before the first.
 
Jim had just finished chewing us out for the declining church Attendance, blaming us for not having enough converts and baptisms. After we left, an angry older staff member pulled me into a side room. He burst out that it wasn't true--the staff WAS getting enough converts and baptisms. But Jim couldn't hold onto them. His sorry preaching and lack of programs was the reason they wouldn't stay. I realized he was right. The staff was getting a lot of people saved and baptized. Vineyard was the one who couldn't do his job.
 
If any of Jim's victims and/or OBC grads are reading this, here is the point:
1) God never failed.
2) God's Word never failed.
3) Jim never succeeded.
4) Jim neither represents nor speaks for God. He is not "the man of God."
5) Jim has no business telling you what to do, how to act, what to believe, etc.

God will not reject you if you walk away from Jim Vineyard and never look back.
 
Caleb Garraway and Michael Shaver (aka Johnny Shave) stayed loyal to Jim Vineyard. Caleb credits Vineyard and Jack Hyles as his mentors and he's "Pulling America".
 
TheAlvinChimpmunk said:
Caleb Garraway and Michael Shaver (aka Johnny Shave) stayed loyal to Jim Vineyard. Caleb credits Vineyard and Jack Hyles as his mentors and he's "Pulling America".
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Yes, 'tis a real pity. I wish he had stayed loyal to God instead of man.
 
Walt said:
Yes, 'tis a real pity. I wish he had stayed loyal to God instead of man.
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Caleb G did stay loyal to God and is doing well in the ministry. He didn't become a snowflake like his former mates (Jackson & McCarty).
 
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