I find it extremely hard to believe

J

Just me

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***In recent months there have been numerous allegations of sexual misconduct by a pastor towards numerous women.

***One of the accusers wrote about it to a degree on her FB page for all to see.

***A dozen or more other ladies have come forward to the staff and deacons of the said pastors church with their claims.

***Said pastor was confronted by some of his staff men about the allegations who asked for him to step down as pastor of the church. He refused to step own and fired one of the men on the spot and told the others to drop the issue.

***He denied he did anything that would require him to step down as the pastor of the church.

***The congregation became aware of the issue and it is estimated that over half of them left the church throughout these events.

***The said pastor called in a pastor from out of state to preach a "the preacher did nothing to be removed form his position/don't touch God's anointed" message and afterwards the accused preacher apologized for what he did.

***Approximately 80% of the staff of the church/college/Christian school have resigned and left the church.

***After all of that, word is now coming out (allegedly from authority at said church) of what they claim the pastor did.

Here is the claim: A married woman (and only 1 woman not several) who was very depressed came to him for counseling. He felt bad for the woman and thus told her that her hair looks good and that she is beautiful .  And that is all that happened.


I find it extremely hard to believe.
 
He is the anointed one how can he be wrong!

I know of two secretaries he had that quit working for him because he told them they were beautiful and it didn't stop there. He did just make comments to them while at work but they made the girls feel very uncomfortable. One of the girls said his remarks were not what a married man should be saying to a single girl.

I know people that have left other churches and they still talk good about the former church. I have not yet met one person that has left his church that had anything good to say about it.
 
TruthBearer said:
He is the anointed one how can he be wrong!

I know of two secretaries he had that quit working for him because he told them they were beautiful and it didn't stop there. He did just make comments to them while at work but they made the girls feel very uncomfortable. One of the girls said his remarks were not what a married man should be saying to a single girl.

I know people that have left other churches and they still talk good about the former church. I have not yet met one person that has left his church that had anything good to say about it.
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Yep.  I know 3 ladies that worked for the church and all 3 said the same thing about him.  They said that he looks at the secretaries in the wrong way and that they feel very uncomfortable around him.
 
TruthBearer said:
He is the anointed one how can he be wrong!

I know of two secretaries he had that quit working for him because he told them they were beautiful and it didn't stop there. He did just make comments to them while at work but they made the girls feel very uncomfortable. One of the girls said his remarks were not what a married man should be saying to a single girl.

I know people that have left other churches and they still talk good about the former church. I have not yet met one person that has left his church that had anything good to say about it.
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It makes you wonder what is going on between him and the secretaries that are still there. I know one that has called off three marriages and is still there. What could be going on that makes her want to stay single and working for him?

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JustABigKid said:
It makes you wonder what is going on between him and the secretaries that are still there. I know one that has called off three marriages and is still there. What could be going on that makes her want to stay single and working for him?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

When I think of Tom and the ladies I think of this music video of a song by Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs:

Hey There Little Red Riding Hood....



 
Just me said:
***In recent months there have been numerous allegations of sexual misconduct by a pastor towards numerous women.

***One of the accusers wrote about it to a degree on her FB page for all to see.

***A dozen or more other ladies have come forward to the staff and deacons of the said pastors church with their claims.

***Said pastor was confronted by some of his staff men about the allegations who asked for him to step down as pastor of the church. He refused to step own and fired one of the men on the spot and told the others to drop the issue.

***He denied he did anything that would require him to step down as the pastor of the church.

***The congregation became aware of the issue and it is estimated that over half of them left the church throughout these events.

***The said pastor called in a pastor from out of state to preach a "the preacher did nothing to be removed form his position/don't touch God's anointed" message and afterwards the accused preacher apologized for what he did.

***Approximately 80% of the staff of the church/college/Christian school have resigned and left the church.

***After all of that, word is now coming out (allegedly from authority at said church) of what they claim the pastor did.

Here is the claim: A married woman (and only 1 woman not several) who was very depressed came to him for counseling. He felt bad for the woman and thus told her that her hair looks good and that she is beautiful .  And that is all that happened.


I find it extremely hard to believe.
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As I understand it, she was not married, and the reason it can only be substantiated by one is because she came forward while it was occurring. She had the texts on her phone. She found them odd, they made her uncomfortable, so she came forward to staff. From my information, they were not "overt", hence a measure of plausible deniability.  The balance of those that came forward no longer had anything beyond their word.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
As I understand it, she was not married, and the reason it can only be substantiated by one is because she came forward while it was occurring. She had the texts on her phone. She found them odd, they made her uncomfortable, so she came forward to staff. From my information, they were not "overt", hence a measure of plausible deniability.  The balance of those that came forward no longer had anything beyond their word.
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You are correct the one girl was not married.  So why are they trying to spin it like it was a depressed married lady? 

More lies from the compound but that is how spin doctors roll.

And by the way, any of you men out there in the habit of texting women other than your wife or daughters?

of course not
 
Just me said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
As I understand it, she was not married, and the reason it can only be substantiated by one is because she came forward while it was occurring. She had the texts on her phone. She found them odd, they made her uncomfortable, so she came forward to staff. From my information, they were not "overt", hence a measure of plausible deniability.  The balance of those that came forward no longer had anything beyond their word.
Click to expand...

You are correct the one girl was not married.  So why are they trying to spin it like it was a depressed married lady?

More lies from the compound but that is how spin doctors roll.

And by the way, any of you men out there in the habit of texting women other than your wife or daughters?

of course not
Click to expand...
They are playing with words. She was married at one time. And, she had some personal battles that she went through. Those facts however are not pertinent or relevant in regards to time. They were all a long ways prior to the events in question. Plausible deniability.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
Just me said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
As I understand it, she was not married, and the reason it can only be substantiated by one is because she came forward while it was occurring. She had the texts on her phone. She found them odd, they made her uncomfortable, so she came forward to staff. From my information, they were not "overt", hence a measure of plausible deniability.  The balance of those that came forward no longer had anything beyond their word.
Click to expand...

You are correct the one girl was not married.  So why are they trying to spin it like it was a depressed married lady?

More lies from the compound but that is how spin doctors roll.

And by the way, any of you men out there in the habit of texting women other than your wife or daughters?

of course not
Click to expand...
They are playing with words. She was married at one time. And, she had some personal battles that she went through. Those facts however are not pertinent or relevant in regards to time. They were all a long ways prior to the events in question. Plausible deniability.
Click to expand...


Plausible deniability... lol

I remember back in the mid seventies I heard that term used on the national news one night.  I remember asking my dad what that meant. 

His response was:  It means someone is blowing smoke up your ... (backside).  They are lying and trying to cover something up.

hmmmmm
 
Definition of Plausible Deniability: You don't have enough evidence yet to prove I am guilty of anything.

There must have been more to make half the church leave in one week.

Tom and his deacons are a lot like Obama and Congress they know what he is doing and they choose to do nothing. The church staff is just as guilty as he is for standing by his side.
 
TruthBearer said:
Definition of Plausible Deniability: You don't have enough evidence yet to prove I am guilty of anything.

There must have been more to make half the church leave in one week.

Tom and his deacons are a lot like Obama and Congress they know what he is doing and they choose to do nothing. The church staff is just as guilty as he is for standing by his side.
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That's how I define plausible deniability as well. The reason more or less so many people left is because there were multiple claims. While there may be a lack of physical evidence, the testimony of so many leaves no room for doubt.
 
What is a shame is VanManen and Jones both said they don't want to hear anything about it. They just closed their ears and eyes to what is happening and have no desire to know the truth.

VanManen thinks being a member up there is above all else. He tried to get one lady to divorce her husband because he didn't like her going to church up there. I known this family personally for over 20 years.

Divorce, Adultery, extra-marital affairs are all supported by the current staff at WH and none of these are supported by the Bible.

"Professing themselves to be wise they became fools."
 
TruthBearer said:
What is a shame is VanManen and Jones both said they don't want to hear anything about it. They just closed their ears and eyes to what is happening and have no desire to know the truth.

VanManen thinks being a member up there is above all else. He tried to get one lady to divorce her husband because he didn't like her going to church up there. I known this family personally for over 20 years.

Divorce, Adultery, extra-marital affairs are all supported by the current staff at WH and none of these are supported by the Bible.

"Professing themselves to be wise they became fools."
Click to expand...


"I don't care about what God thinks because as long as I am doing whatever the preacher says (Tom Vineyard in this case) God will be pleased with me."
Adrian Van Manen

I just looked at Adrian in amazement as my jaw dropped to the floor. Then I looked over at Tom and he was smiling like the Cheshire cat.

All I could do was stand up and walk out of Tom's office shaking my head in amazement.

So, yeah, I am pretty sure he does not want to hear anything about it or know the truth.
 
One thing that church teaches its members and staff is how to be a cowards and keep their heads in the sand.

They talk bad about smorgasbord preachers that only preach on the love of Jesus and never the wrath of God. While they always preach about the pastor can do what he wants and the members should never question this and use the verse Touch not God's anointed and never mention the times in the Bible where the "God's anointed" was reprimanded/rebuked for wrong doing.

I guess in their Bibles they have removed these scriptures. That is one of the biggest things I find wrong with WHBC, they don't teach the whole Bible which leads to all the other nonsense that goes on up there.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
TruthBearer said:
Definition of Plausible Deniability: You don't have enough evidence yet to prove I am guilty of anything.

There must have been more to make half the church leave in one week.

Tom and his deacons are a lot like Obama and Congress they know what he is doing and they choose to do nothing. The church staff is just as guilty as he is for standing by his side.
Click to expand...
That's how I define plausible deniability as well. The reason more or less so many people left is because there were multiple claims. While there may be a lack of physical evidence, the testimony of so many leaves no room for doubt.
Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 13:1  This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

So we believe one man Tom or the 14 women who have come forward. 

I will go with God's Word on this one.
 
Sad thing is that 14 is the number that CAME FORWARD. I'm sure there are countless more!! 


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So is Tom Vineyard the one being accused? If so, I don't see how he'd be a ladies man. I'm sure he'd be a fine Sunday School teacher but not a pastor as he is pretty monotone. He doesn't have the charisma or Hollywood nature of his dad. Tom inherited the church from the Papa bear and of course the elder Vineyard got the job because he was buddies with the Pope (Hyles).

Anyone ever know what happened to Bob Ross? He was pretty legit like Tony Keaton. Anyway Ross' grandson Jesse Jackson went to OBC but left after a year to attend a "real" college. Today he's a professional body builder. True Story.
 
AlvinMartinezVoice said:
So is Tom Vineyard the one being accused? If so, I don't see how he'd be a ladies man. I'm sure he'd be a fine Sunday School teacher but not a pastor as he is pretty monotone. He doesn't have the charisma or Hollywood nature of his dad. Tom inherited the church from the Papa bear and of course the elder Vineyard got the job because he was buddies with the Pope (Hyles).

Anyone ever know what happened to Bob Ross? He was pretty legit like Tony Keaton. Anyway Ross' grandson Jesse Jackson went to OBC but left after a year to attend a "real" college. Today he's a professional body builder. True Story.
Click to expand...

Ross is a Vineyardite and came to defend Tom a couple weeks ago. He always spoke of being courageous and has on a number of occasions thrown a friend under the bus to not go against a Vineyard. (He got a standing ovation and a church party when he left, other staff didn't even get mentioned on their last Sunday).Then he ended up in the hospital with severe pancreitis. It is ironic that the message he gave was speaking about God's judgement if you are on the wrong side of the pulpit and support wickedness you will be judge by God and bad things will happen. He defended Tom and less than two days was in the hospital fighting for his life. He is doing better now but not sure if he has been released from the hospital.
 
AlvinMartinezVoice said:
Anyone ever know what happened to Bob Ross? He was pretty legit like Tony Keaton. Anyway Ross' grandson Jesse Jackson went to OBC but left after a year to attend a "real" college. Today he's a professional body builder. True Story.
Click to expand...

You might want to catch up on your Jesse Jackson life story its changed quite a bit and for the good. True Story
 
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