I have noticed.....

[cast.sheep]

that, for the most part, those of us who made FBCH/HAC our home for many years are harder on the place than those who went to HAC for 4 (or so) years and then left.

We came to HAC in it's "heyday" and experienced pastors Hyles AND Schaap.

It's easy for me to forget the good and focus on the bad.  But by the time we left...the bad was so overwhelmingly bad that it erased much of the good we experienced.

The college is not the same place it was in 1980...and in retrospect, it had plenty of flaws then too. We just didn't know it.

4 years of college wasn't long enough to fully brainwash most people or expose them to the damaging week by week erosion of the ability to think for one's self.
For those of us who spent decades there, you didn't realize the magnitude of what you were exposed to until you left.

What are your thoughts?

(edited content)

 

[IFB X-Files]

4 years of college wasn't long enough to fully brainwash most people or expose them to the damaging week by week erosion of the ability to think for one's self.

What are your thoughts?

I've been married for 37 years (earth years).  My spouse is shopping.  When she returns she will tell me what I can say.

 

[Boomer]

4 years of college wasn't long enough to fully brainwash most people or expose them to the damaging week by week erosion of the ability to think for one's self.

What are your thoughts?

I've been married for 37 years (earth years).  My spouse is shopping.  When she returns she will tell me what I can say.

This is GOLD! 

 

[Still There]

It is true ....

Being there as long as I was, I think I expected more.  After Bro. Hyles died, I honestly thought who would take his place and before I could take another breath JS was right in.  I didn't vote for him and honestly I didn't care for him.  I stayed cause it was my church for way too many years.  We had friends and family that we loved and couldn't leave.  After the JS disaster, we started looking and have now since left and haven't looked back.  We love where we are and love our pastor.  No, it's not Bible Baptist, Bethel or any of the other FBC followers, but we love where we are. 

 

[cast.sheep]

I would like to say that I do have very fond memories of our years there, despite the chaos.  I made friends of a lifetime.  Right after we moved away to a distant state, most of our friends moved away as well.  We have some friends who still live up there, but no close friends who still attend FBCH. 

Our children grew up there...K4 through college.  They have some GREAT memories!  They were involved in everything.  It was awesome.  We had a Sunday school class we LOVED.  Our members were just regular folks and we loved them.  We LOVED the city of Chicago and enjoyed visiting there regularly. 

We made a ton of memories at the college. The kids who came through were so awesome.  We loved interacting with them. 

Youth Conferences, Pastors Schools, etc.  Tons of memories.

Then...there were the negative things.  Will leave that for another topic.

I tend to be negative about our years there and I am trying to overcome that.  The good memories I have are related to my family, friends, and college kids.  It was the hierarchy that made things so distasteful.  The control was unbearable.  But.....still....I have a LOT of good memories as well.  I need to focus on those.

 

[RAIDER]

I would like to say that I do have very fond memories of our years there, despite the chaos.  I made friends of a lifetime.  Right after we moved away to a distant state, most of our friends moved away as well.  We have some friends who still live up there, but no close friends who still attend FBCH. 

Our children grew up there...K4 through college.  They have some GREAT memories!  They were involved in everything.  It was awesome.  We had a Sunday school class we LOVED.  Our members were just regular folks and we loved them.  We LOVED the city of Chicago and enjoyed visiting there regularly. 

We made a ton of memories at the college. The kids who came through were so awesome.  We loved interacting with them. 

Youth Conferences, Pastors Schools, etc.  Tons of memories.

Then...there were the negative things.  Will leave that for another topic.

I tend to be negative about our years there and I am trying to overcome that.  The good memories I have are related to my family, friends, and college kids.  It was the hierarchy that made things so distasteful.  The control was unbearable.  But.....still....I have a LOT of good memories as well.  I need to focus on those.

How many years before you left did you see things that deeply bothered you?

 

[cast.sheep]

deeply....about 2
concerned...about 5

We left because it was God's will, not because we were disgruntled.  He took us to another state into another ministry.  But, we were thankful because most stay because they have no other opportunity.  I can't tell you how many staffers called us "lucky" because we left when we did.  Had we stayed, perhaps we would have been one of those laid off.  Who knows.

I would also like to add that although we left "in the right way", we were still criticized and lied about after leaving.  That's the stuff that drives me crazy. No "God bless you as you go out to serve the Lord!".  Just criticism.  And outright lies.  And character assassination.  It was so wrong.  But that's what happened to people who left.  We figured it would happen, but were still shocked when it did.

 

[Norefund]

I agree. Regardless of what was said about how to leave FBC, there was no correct way. Anyone who left was a malcontent and deserved the scorn of those who stayed faithful and loyal to The Preacher. At least that way my experience.

Speaking to the subject, I made many life long friends during my years there. I still see many of them occasionally. I don't regret my time there, but I also found I was quite relieved to no longer be there.

deeply....about 2
concerned...about 5

We left because it was God's will, not because we were disgruntled.  He took us to another state into another ministry.  But, we were thankful because most stay because they have no other opportunity.  I can't tell you how many staffers called us "lucky" because we left when we did.  Had we stayed, perhaps we would have been one of those laid off.  Who knows.

I would also like to add that although we left "in the right way", we were still criticized and lied about after leaving.  That's the stuff that drives me crazy. No "God bless you as you go out to serve the Lord!".  Just criticism.  And outright lies.  And character assassination.  It was so wrong.  But that's what happened to people who left.  We figured it would happen, but were still shocked when it did.

 

[RAIDER]

deeply....about 2
concerned...about 5

We left because it was God's will, not because we were disgruntled.  He took us to another state into another ministry.  But, we were thankful because most stay because they have no other opportunity.  I can't tell you how many staffers called us "lucky" because we left when we did.  Had we stayed, perhaps we would have been one of those laid off.  Who knows.

I would also like to add that although we left "in the right way", we were still criticized and lied about after leaving.  That's the stuff that drives me crazy. No "God bless you as you go out to serve the Lord!".  Just criticism.  And outright lies.  And character assassination.  It was so wrong.  But that's what happened to people who left.  We figured it would happen, but were still shocked when it did.

I applaud you for leaving.  The reason I asked the question is that most people stay longer than they should.  They feel they should leave years before they do, but it is difficult.

I have to ask, you said that you saw things that concerned you 5 years before you left, and things that deeply concerned you 2 years before you left.  You also say that you did not leave because you were disgruntled.  How could you see things that deeply concerned you for 2 years and yet not leave disgruntled?

 

[cast.sheep]

That's hard to answer.  Do you ever wonder why or how Jim Jones got all those people to drink the kool-aid and kill themselves????  I don't.  I know exactly how he did it.  And that's what the place was doing to us....all of us.  Those who left were vilified. It was scary to think of leaving.  God wouldn't bless you.  Your family would fall apart.  Your kids would go to the devil.  They would marry the wrong person. Etc.

You have to be there for a lengthy amount of time to really understand.  And I think that is why so many of us become completely disenchanted with the place after we leave.  You suddenly realize that no one there REALLY cared about you.....ever.  Or your kids.  You were a means to an end. And WE were the lucky ones.  We and our kids were "inner circle" so we/they had lots of advantages that others didn't have. So, we THOUGHT they cared.  But they didn't.  They don't want you to leave...not because they are concerned for you...but because they were afraid of what it said about THEM.  All they cared about was themselves.  The leadership, I mean.  There are a few sincere ones, but they are so blinded that they just go along with the flow.

When we became concerned...that's when you start to think for yourselves and wonder what's really going on.  But it's a process.  It's not an overnight revelation.  There is a lot to overcome during the process.  Then when you become deeply concerned, you get scared, because you don't know what else to do.  There is NO ONE to go to.  This place was our entire life!  And to realize that it isn't all you thought it was...it's scary. 

We were not taught "faith" there.  We were only taught "loyalty".  We didn't have the faith to believe that God would take care of us if we up and left.  Sad, isn't it?  And hard to admit.  Our faith has grown exponentially "out here".  And we are grateful.

God took us away from there before we became disgruntled.  We knew that "something" was wrong, but we didn't know exactly what. We were deeply concerned, but didn't know where to turn or what to do about it.  We came there as 18 year old kids who were new Christians.  We basically knew nothing about Christianity but what we experienced there.

This doesn't even BEGIN to explain it....

 

[Walt]

Interesting questions... I'm not really qualified to answer because I never attended FBCH or went to HAC; I know about it secondhand through people who went there, and from my more limited exposure to JH, un, "preaching", if you'll forgive the expression.

I first heard of him when I was in college; after I graduated and got a job,  I subscribed to the Sword of the Lord and presumably, there were messages by him.  The church I was in had a HAC grad as the youth pastor (the pastor himself was, I think, ex-SBC).  The youth pastor was a dynamic, outgoing, great guy who influenced me. I first heard Jack Hyles speak while in this church.  Some of the youth went there.  One guy dropped out after a year, telling me that he had been a security guard, and I wouldn't believe the things going on there.  Being gung-ho, I just dismissed him as "bitter."  I remember one message that Jack Hyles preached - he claimed a passage said the opposite of what the normal sense was, and I thought at the time he had great insight. Everyone kept telling me how great he was, pointing at "his" numbers.  Fast forward a few years through some moves and into a church modeled after HAC... it was early here that I fell out of favor with Hyles... I was disgusted by the worship of the man, and the fact that he was fine with it.  Then I also began to see the fruit  as young people grew up, good at "soul-winning", but not having any relationship with Jesus Christ nor much knowledge of the Bible.  After a lot of man-worship, we pulled ourselves and our kids out of there.

So, I've "rubbed elbows" with HAC people/FBCH people.  Some graduates are excellent men of character and have a desire for the Scriptures.  But I've seen many more people ruined by the Hyles philosophies.

 

[CONSPIRATOR]

The people who stayed longer (or already grew up there) were more invested since it was #theplacetobe, while some  came for our time there and went back "home."  Even some of the staff men that should have stood up to Schaap were too busy CYA'ing themselves because they didn't want to lose everything.

Plus, some didn't buy in to the "We are saving the world/America/fundamentalism" cheer leading.

At the end of the day, whatever happens in Hammond has ZERO effect on my hometown.