If You Started a Church from Scratch ...

[Bruh]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

There was a time in my life when I debated on leaving my IFB church. 

I called at least 20 to 30 churches of all stripes and asked to talk to the Pastor.  When he answered and we began to talk and I began to ask doctrinal questions such as, do you believe in a universal church or a local body and questions like the Lords table, what do you believe about this? I even asked what they believed about Salvation? 

Without fail all Pastors were upset and got offended that I would ask such questions, the majority of them said, you just need to come and visit and see if you like it.  And I would say, what if we do not agree on doctrine, they would say, as long as we agree on how a person gets saved then we should be o.k. 

I guess I just need a Pastor that says, I believe the Bible says this this and this, not well lets see maybe you should just come and visit and see if you like it. 

Now, are all none IFB churches like this? maybe not but my experience tells me that the IFB churches that I have been a part of  the Pastors welcome questions. 

Needless to say I stayed. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

No reason to be ashamed of the name.  John wasn't.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

No reason to be ashamed of the name.  John wasn't.

Exactly. And his name wasn't John the Methodist or John the Presbyterian or John the Episcopalian.

This'll prolly get me flamed lol.

 

[Fresh Air]

Well, except that things haven't fallen apart.

I'm literally lol... Every denomination ever started has fallen apart eventually, in the sense of gone liberal. Jesus didn't didn't shed His blood to purchase a denomination, and He never guaranteed one protection from the gates of hell either. Denominationalism has been a tremendous aid to the devil in the subjugating of orthodox theology in thousands of churches.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

I don't believe your first statement is necessarily true.
For years I served on the board of a church planting organization...an Independent Baptist church planting organization. We had an extensive screening process, which began with a doctrinal statement. If you weren't in doctrinal agreement with us Baptists, we didn't waste your time or ours by beginning the process.

Years ago, almost every church was _______________ Baptist Church.
More recently, Baptist is seldom in the name....yet the belief system and church polity remains the same.
For the life of me, I don't see a problem with that.

I have used the same dry cleaner for 10 years and witnessed to them (husband and wife) for years. But he refused to attend a Baptist Church! Who knows why, but the stigma was strong. After 7 years, his wife finally came to church, Easter, I think. She was convicted and changed by the Holy Spirit, but only when their son was saved did Jeff come for his baptism. Today, they are faithful leaders in our church, but he jokes today that if we had Harvest Bible Church on the sign, he would have come 10 years sooner.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

I don't believe your first statement is necessarily true.
For years I served on the board of a church planting organization...an Independent Baptist church planting organization. We had an extensive screening process, which began with a doctrinal statement. If you weren't in doctrinal agreement with us Baptists, we didn't waste your time or ours by beginning the process.

Years ago, almost every church was _______________ Baptist Church.
More recently, Baptist is seldom in the name....yet the belief system and church polity remains the same.
For the life of me, I don't see a problem with that.

I have used the same dry cleaner for 10 years and witnessed to them (husband and wife) for years. But he refused to attend a Baptist Church! Who knows why, but the stigma was strong. After 7 years, his wife finally came to church, Easter, I think. She was convicted and changed by the Holy Spirit, but only when their son was saved did Jeff come for his baptism. Today, they are faithful leaders in our church, but he jokes today that if we had Harvest Bible Church on the sign, he would have come 10 years sooner.

If I guess correctly the blank is Bible. And, once again if I guess correctly, in my opinion the BBF changed.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

I don't believe your first statement is necessarily true.
For years I served on the board of a church planting organization...an Independent Baptist church planting organization. We had an extensive screening process, which began with a doctrinal statement. If you weren't in doctrinal agreement with us Baptists, we didn't waste your time or ours by beginning the process.

Years ago, almost every church was _______________ Baptist Church.
More recently, Baptist is seldom in the name....yet the belief system and church polity remains the same.
For the life of me, I don't see a problem with that.

I have used the same dry cleaner for 10 years and witnessed to them (husband and wife) for years. But he refused to attend a Baptist Church! Who knows why, but the stigma was strong. After 7 years, his wife finally came to church, Easter, I think. She was convicted and changed by the Holy Spirit, but only when their son was saved did Jeff come for his baptism. Today, they are faithful leaders in our church, but he jokes today that if we had Harvest Bible Church on the sign, he would have come 10 years sooner.

If I guess correctly the blank is Bible. And, once again if I guess correctly, in my opinion the BBF changed.

If you're asking if I was a part of the group from Springfield, the answer is not ever. The blank was a generic....harvest baptist, grace baptist, y'all come baptist....

 

[bruinboy]

Funny, those who staunchly defend the IFB are the same ones who are hastening it's continuing demise.  The same old thinking of separation, secondary separation and man-made rules and doctrines are failing to reach those who choose now to think for themselves.  One of the great things about the information age. These hirelings, sex perverts and KJVO heretics, can no longer hide from those congregants and new free-thinkers, who have been kept in ignorance for so long by the managawd. 

 

[prophet]

Funny, those who staunchly defend the IFB are the same ones who are hastening it's continuing demise.  The same old thinking of separation, secondary separation and man-made rules and doctrines are failing to reach those who choose now to think for themselves.  One of the great things about the information age. These hirelings, sex perverts and KJVO heretics, can no longer hide from those congregants and new free-thinkers, who have been kept in ignorance for so long by the managawd.

They are kept in ignorance because they want to be.  Isn't The Spirit inside bearing witness?  If yes, they will never have peace following a man.
No, I've seen enough to have come full circle.
The masses are asses, and they want to be lied to.

Anishinaabe

 

[Ransom]

I'm literally lol... Every denomination ever started has fallen apart eventually, in the sense of gone liberal.

Don't take this the wrong way, Tom, but you fundies have spent so much of your time in your Skinner boxes that you wouldn't know "liberal" if it bit you on your fried-chicken-fed rear.

 

[Fresh Air]

Don't take this the wrong way, Tom, but you fundies have spent so much of your time in your Skinner boxes that you wouldn't know "liberal" if it bit you on your fried-chicken-fed rear.

So, would you use another word besides 'liberal' to describe the mainline Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian, and Lutheran denominations? Okay, let's update it. How about 'biblical minimalists'? Or, perhaps we should just use Bible terms and call 'em 'damnable heretics'? Whichever way you slice it they always eventually take over seminaries and thus denominations.

...but you sure have made me hungry for fried chicken today. 

 

[theophilus]

If I were starting a new church I would prefer to call it a Bible church rather than a Baptist church.  A little over 30 years ago I was involved it starting a church but it was called a Baptist church because most of the others involved wanted to do that.  I didn't try to persuade them to change their minds because what a church teaches and does is more important that its name.

 

[Ransom]

So, would you use another word besides 'liberal' to describe the mainline Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian, and Lutheran denominations?

I'd use three words, actually: "Someone else's denomination."

This is your argument? That mainline churches have gone soft, so an evangelical denomination will follow suit? Go crawl back into your box, Tom, and wait for the Rapture. You're no help here.

 

[Fresh Air]

I'd use three words, actually: "Someone else's denomination."

This is your argument? That mainline churches have gone soft, so an evangelical denomination will follow suit? Go crawl back into your box, Tom, and wait for the Rapture. You're no help here.

And weren't those mainline denominations, at least the Methodist/Presbyterian ones, the equivalent of evangelical in their time? No, this isn't my only argument, but I do find it exceedingly curious that a guy as smart as you doesn't seem to have any answer to this but ad hominem attacks...

 

[bruinboy]

uh-oh.

 

[Bob H]

Would you label it "Independent Baptist" or would you distance yourself from this label? Instead of Baptist in the title, perhaps you would go with Bible or something like that.

Why would anybody wanna be a Baptist?

 

[Ransom]

And weren't those mainline denominations, at least the Methodist/Presbyterian ones, the equivalent of evangelical in their time? No, this isn't my only argument, but I do find it exceedingly curious that a guy as smart as you doesn't seem to have any answer to this but ad hominem attacks...

Answer to what? There's no "there" there.

I notice that when you say this:

Every denomination ever started has fallen apart eventually, in the sense of gone liberal.

and then you cited examples, you failed to list the Southern Baptist Convention. I wonder why that is? I guess that if a denomination actually does recover from liberalism, it doesn't fit your mental picture of The Way Things Oughta Be, so you just ignore it as if it ain't there.

 

[Escapee]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

Two of the three words you are so proud of are not even in the Bible! ;D

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Ransom, I have no problem listing Baptist Conventions/Conferences gone bad. Some here at home
Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
now
Canadian National Baptist Baptist Convention
Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches
North American Baptist Conference
Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
Baptist General Conference of Canada

as well as some not at home

Southern Baptist Convention
Bible Baptist Fellowship
General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
World Baptist Fellowship

Just to name a few.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Yes, I absolutely would.

People won't label a church for one of two reasons: either they don't believe anything, or they want to hide what they believe. The first is worse, but the second is still bad.

If that's what you are then say it. I've never been an independent, fundamental Baptist because it was popularly accepted. I've been an independent fundamental Baptist b/c I strongly believe in the core doctrines that underline each of those words. I'm IFB by biblical conviction, not birth, convenience, or pragmatism.

Two of the three words you are so proud of are not even in the Bible! ;D

The only word you capitalized besides the first word in your sentence is not in the Bible. You must be using your un-scriptural word "Bible" as a "label" to describe the Scriptures collectively, the 66 books from Genesis to Revelation because scriptural terms like "The Word" and "Testament" don't convey the same meaning anymore.