If You Started a Church from Scratch ...

[Frag]

They had purple busses.
They mighta been real "nice" guys.

Anishinaabe

They did!  I forgot that.  Too funny...

 

[prophet]

They had purple busses.
They mighta been real "nice" guys.

Anishinaabe

They did!  I forgot that.  Too funny...

They restructured, have a new name, I don't even know where they assemble, cuz a Black charismatic church has been in that building for at least 10 years.

Anishinaabe

 

[prophet]

The word "Baptist" has never been necessary.

If you are planting a church, you are targeting people who don't know the reason for the distinctives, unbelievers.  They will do an internet search on any key words that you hand them in print, or advertise openly.

Restricting these key words to Scriptural Words, may avoid the appearance of evil.  This is a regional issue.  Out West, it may be absolutely necessary to present your church as 'Christian'.

In the South, you may need to put Independent Baptist on everything, to delineate between yourself and Snake Handlers, or Missionary Baptists, or liberal SBC (if the SBC in that area is liberal).

In the North, you don't want people who grew up in Protestant Denominations , and are lost, to be put off by your name, before you can get the gospel to them.
Some denoms have trained their people to avoid Baptists at all costs.

There is no right or wrong answer, concerning this.
It is not addressed in Scripture, so we cannot be dogmatic about it.

We look like we don't have love for one another, to the outsiders looking in, which is supposed to be a testimony to them, when we get too vocal in this area.

All of this is in the context of church planting , which I have been involved with for 20+ years.


Anishinaabe

 

[Fresh Air]

At what point would the general poor report of other IFB Churches overshadow the benefits of labeling your Church IFB?

It won't. Unlike some others I know, I do not constantly revisit who I am and what I believe based upon negative publicity.

 

[prophet]

At what point would the general poor report of other IFB Churches overshadow the benefits of labeling your Church IFB?

It won't. Unlike some others I know, I do not constantly revisit who I am and what I believe based upon negative publicity.

I understand this sentiment.
Since even the words IFB aren't limited to any strict doctrinal set, they are not an exact expression of your beliefs, anyway.

At some point, maybe in the not so distant future, we who will not receive the mark will be grouped together by society, no matter what our Church sign says.

FTR, the churches I have been involved in planting, have all had Baptist in the name.  But that word had no meaning, in South Chicago, other than it's tie to the antebellum South, and the preferred religion of emancipated slaves.

Anishinaabe

 

[Fresh Air]

At some point, maybe in the not so distant future, we who will not receive the mark will be grouped together by society, no matter what our Church sign says.

Agreed, and it is an increasing burden on my heart that the people to whom I minister are prepared for that day. Persecution is coming. I do not welcome it, but I do believe it will purify the American church, and that I do welcome.

 

[prophet]

At some point, maybe in the not so distant future, we who will not receive the mark will be grouped together by society, no matter what our Church sign says.

Agreed, and it is an increasing burden on my heart that the people to whom I minister are prepared for that day. Persecution is coming. I do not welcome it, but I do believe it will purify the American church, and that I do welcome.

Strangely, I find comfort in this, as well.
Maybe it is the Fornication, and idolatry, that we are fed up with.
Maybe all Christians through all the ages go through this sentiment.

But it seems as though God must afflict us, here in the U.S., to get our attention.

Anishinaabe

 

[North]

I use the label, "Unaffiliated Baptist".

The reason I would only use Baptist is because I would not want my children growing up in a church that is not baptist by name or doctrine.

The only segment of Christianity that I am confident will hold to their beliefs in proper biblical doctrine and Christian conduct for the next 300+ years are the baptists. I raise my family in the baptist tradition for that reason alone.

 

[rsc2a]

I use the label, "Unaffiliated Baptist".

The reason I would only use Baptist is because I would not want my children growing up in a church that is not baptist by name or doctrine.

Frankly, I could care less if my kids call themselves Baptist. Or Methodist. Or Pentacostal. Or...

...just as long as they own the label "Christian".

[quote author=North]The only segment of Christianity that I am confident will hold to their beliefs in proper biblical doctrine and Christian conduct for the next 300+ years are the baptists. I raise my family in the baptist tradition for that reason alone.[/quote]

Because Baptists haven't changed their doctrinal stances at all in the last 300 years?

Exhibit A: Reformed soteriolodgy
Exhibit B: Left Behind eschatology

In fact, if you want to look at groups that haven't changed their doctrinal stances in the last 300 years, you need to look at the folks who like the Orthodox, Catholics, Coptics, Presbys, Mennonite (although there is a definite shift in the last 20 for some churches), Lutherans......

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Would you label it "Independent Baptist" or would you distance yourself from this label? Instead of Baptist in the title, perhaps you would go with Bible or something like that.

I'd go with the Meow Mix Lolcat Bible Church.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Exhibit B: Left Behind eschatology

Amen.  They went from Biblical eschatology to a "We want to be saved from tribulation, so we're going to spaghettify the scriptures to make them say we won't be here."  A.K.A. "The Wishful Thinking AWOL Eschatology". 

 

[prophet]

Exhibit B: Left Behind eschatology

Amen.  They went from Biblical eschatology to a "We want to be saved from tribulation, so we're going to spaghettify the scriptures to make them say we won't be here."  A.K.A. "The Wishful Thinking AWOL Eschatology".

We swallowed dispensationalism, textual criticism, shredded eschatology, salesmanship soulwinning, Calvinism, comparative Christian living, Works Repentance, and, and and.
And this was all just since 1820.

Anishinaabe

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Exhibit B: Left Behind eschatology

Amen.  They went from Biblical eschatology to a "We want to be saved from tribulation, so we're going to spaghettify the scriptures to make them say we won't be here."  A.K.A. "The Wishful Thinking AWOL Eschatology".

We swallowed dispensationalism, textual criticism, shredded eschatology, salesmanship soulwinning, Calvinism, comparative Christian living, Works Repentance, and, and and.
And this was all just since 1820.

Anishinaabe

Amen again, except Calvinism which actually started earlier with Luther.

 

[prophet]

Exhibit B: Left Behind eschatology

Amen.  They went from Biblical eschatology to a "We want to be saved from tribulation, so we're going to spaghettify the scriptures to make them say we won't be here."  A.K.A. "The Wishful Thinking AWOL Eschatology".

We swallowed dispensationalism, textual criticism, shredded eschatology, salesmanship soulwinning, Calvinism, comparative Christian living, Works Repentance, and, and and.
And this was all just since 1820.

Anishinaabe

Amen again, except Calvinism which actually started earlier with Luther.

For clarity:

I was referring to the influence of Spurgeon et al on 19th century Baptists... Not implying that we started it.

Anishinaabe

 

[prophet]

... oh yeah! Where Spurgeon was going back to historic Baptist theology!

Calvinism wasnt a historical Baptist position, except in pockets, of course.

Anishinaabe

 

[Ransom]

Calvinism wasnt a historical Baptist position, except in pockets, of course.

Erm, no. Confessionally Reformed ("Particular") Baptists existed in the United Kingdom since the early 17th century, arising only a few decades after the founding of the General Baptists by Thomas Helwys and John Smyth. Notable Particular Baptist figures prior to Spurgeon include John Bunyan, Benjamin Keach, John Gill, Andrew Fuller, and William Carey. There were three significant Particular Baptist confessions authored in the 17th century alone: the First London Baptist Confession of 1644, Keach's Catechism of 1677, and the Second London Baptist Confession of 1689.

Not only were they not "pockets," they were the dominant English Baptists right into the 20th century.

 

[prophet]

Yep! There were two choices:

1) General Baptists who believed you could lose your salvation. That group died out in the early 1800s. Other groups revived their theology and are still known as General Baptists. Arminians.

2) Particular Baptists... called Particular because of their belief in limited atonement. Calvinists.

British Pocket.

Anishinaabe

 

[Ransom]

British Pocket.

Baptists are an English theological movement. There were more Baptists in England than anywhere else, for a long time.

Calling this a "pocket" is about as meaningful as calling the Australians living in Australia a "pocket." Meaning, not very.

 

[prophet]

British Pocket.

Baptists are an English theological movement. There were more Baptists in England than anywhere else, for a long time.

Calling this a "pocket" is about as meaningful as calling the Australians living in Australia a "pocket." Meaning, not very.

Aborigines, or White ?

Anishinaabe

 

[Ransom]

Aborigines, or White ?

Your point is equally absurd either way.