I'm Sure There's A Good Reason

voicecrying said:
Sub lets principle guide his vote. You let pragmatism guide yours. I'm not sure why you get so upset at sub for that.
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voicecrying said:
Voting for the lesser of two evils instead of a 3rd party because the 3rd party has no chance of winning.
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and voting in a way that allows the greater of 2 evils to take office is not "principle" at all.... it;s pathetically stupid.. .... .. and doing that knowing it could cause a more evil candidate to be elected is just downright evil itself..... ..... ... sometimes the pragmatic decision serves a higher principle... ..and i don;t know why some of you self described "principled" voters can;t understand that.......
 
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aleshanee said:
and voting in a way that allows the greater of 2 evils to take office is not "principle" at all.... it;s pathetically stupid.. .... .. and doing that knowing it could cause a more evil candidate to be elected is just downright evil itself..... ..... ... sometimes the pragmatic decision serves a higher principle... ..and i don;t know why some of you self described "principled" voters can;t understand that.......
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Because scripture teaches principles not pragmatism.
 
subllibrm said:
Because scripture teaches principles not pragmatism.
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What does scriptures teach about judging other people who follow their conscience and principles when they may differ with yours?😉
 
subllibrm said:
Because scripture teaches principles not pragmatism.
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was jonah standing for principle when he sat outside niniveh and demanded God destroy the city like He said He would?.... ..what was jonahs real concern there?..... that the citizens of niniveh might think God was inconsistent?..... or that he... jonah... would personally lose face after being so adamant that niniveh was doomed?.......... remember how God answered him?

from where i see it... your principle is more about saving yourself from embarassment and discomfort than it is standing firm in support of any "moral" politician......... peoples lives including the lives of innocent children are put at risk and even lost when people like what we just suffered 4 years of stand in positions of authority....... you have plenty of concern for your own personal principle - but do you have any concern for them?........

in case you missed what i wrote about this before - all politicans are corrupt in one way or another... even your beloved mike pence or whoever it is you like....... so - what you and your cohorts are calling "principle" seems to simply be a matter of which brand of corruption irritates you most and which kind you are willing to overlook........ and whether you really care more for the lives and souls of others than you do about your flawed principle....
 
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ALAYMAN said:
What does scriptures teach about judging other people who follow their conscience and principles when they may differ with yours?😉
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Here would be a great opportunity for you to cite me judging you or anyone else here for the vote they cast.

I have spoken against the church in general allowing political views to override their responsibilities before God to live peaceably among all men. Defending (overlooking, rationalizing, downplaying, et al) indefensible behavior for the sake of political policy is the issue. If that doesn't apply to anyone here then I should be able to assume that there is general agreement with my position. Instead the responses are more of the same ad nauseam.
 
subllibrm said:
Here would be a great opportunity for you to cite me judging you or anyone else here for the vote they cast.

I have spoken against the church in general allowing political views to override their responsibilities before God to live peaceably among all men. Defending (overlooking, rationalizing, downplaying, et al) indefensible behavior for the sake of political policy is the issue. If that doesn't apply to anyone here then I should be able to assume that there is general agreement with my position. Instead the responses are more of the same ad nauseam.
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and just how many of us are there here who you think have misjudged and misrepresented you? .......... you know what they say about things like this........ when 1 person calls you a jack donkey - laugh.... when 2 do it punch them both ......... but when 3 call you that it;s time to put on a pack saddle and wear it......... ......

and besides.... i already answered your challenge months ago to cite where you judged and accused members of forum.... in your thread "does tone matter? i itemized a list of posts where you did exactly that - accused and judged forums members of placing politics before God - and you ignored it.... ..later after i called you out on that you came back and brushed it off with blanket claim that it was all just my opinions.... .... so why should anyone believe you would answer any posts made in answer to your challenges now?......
 
subllibrm said:
Here would be a great opportunity for you to cite me judging you or anyone else here for the vote they cast.

I have spoken against the church in general allowing political views to override their responsibilities before God to live peaceably among all men. Defending (overlooking, rationalizing, downplaying, et al) indefensible behavior for the sake of political policy is the issue. If that doesn't apply to anyone here then I should be able to assume that there is general agreement with my position. Instead the responses are more of the same ad nauseam.
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You are THE one trick pony here.
If you vote, your choice involves compromise….because there is no perfect moral candidate…except your super secret one.

Hallelujah!
 
subllibrm said:
Here would be a great opportunity for you to cite me judging you or anyone else here for the vote they cast.

I have spoken against the church in general allowing political views to override their responsibilities before God to live peaceably among all men. Defending (overlooking, rationalizing, downplaying, et al) indefensible behavior for the sake of political policy is the issue. If that doesn't apply to anyone here then I should be able to assume that there is general agreement with my position. Instead the responses are more of the same ad nauseam.
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Define judging, because I think we are talking past each other. When you constantly cite examples of how the church is selling its birthright for a bowl of Trump pottage on a conservative fundamentalist website, are you sure that that’s not implying some form of judgment?
 
ALAYMAN said:
Define judging, because I think we are talking past each other. When you constantly cite examples of how the church is selling its birthright for a bowl of Trump pottage on a conservative fundamentalist website, are you sure that that’s not implying some form of judgment?
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You just misquoted me. Here, let me say it again:

"The church in America has sold her spiritual birthright for a bowl of political pottage." - me, circa 1996

Every concern I have mentioned regarding the GOP predates Mr. Trump. As I have said many times before, he is not the problem, he is a symptom of the problem. The problem is that the church is now unable to extricate itself from the partisan divide. That limits the church in proclaiming the gospel because of the ugly cultural baggage that is now firmly attached to her identity.

Have I been critical of Mr. Trump? Absolutely, and I will continue to do so when his behavior warrants such. Have I been critical of his supporters? Absolutely, insofar as they are willing to excuse or explain away his behavior.
 
subllibrm said:
You just misquoted me. Here, let me say it again:

"The church in America has sold her spiritual birthright for a bowl of political pottage." - me, circa 1996
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just curious..... did you make that statement in 1996 after voting for ross perot 4 years before?..... ....

just asking you a simple question here.... not trying to make any accusations... assumptions... misquotes... or misjudgments...:rolleyes:

subllibrm said:
Every concern I have mentioned regarding the GOP predates Mr. Trump. As I have said many times before, he is not the problem, he is a symptom of the problem. The problem is that the church is now unable to extricate itself from the partisan divide. That limits the church in proclaiming the gospel because of the ugly cultural baggage that is now firmly attached to her identity.
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i know people who believe christians should take no part in the political process at all..... they believe christians should not even vote but rather just sit back and allow whatever happens to happen.... . most of the statements you have made on this forum regarding politics seems to indicate you believe that as well.... ....if you do you should just come out and say it.....

subllibrm said:
Have I been critical of Mr. Trump? Absolutely, and I will continue to do so when his behavior warrants such. Have I been critical of his supporters? Absolutely, insofar as they are willing to excuse or explain away his behavior.
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i criticize trumps behavior all the time.... but i don;t do it in front of people like you........ you come off as a hater of trump who clearly wants to see him fail........ and i am not the only person here who sees that...... there are a lot of us here.. .... so if that is not true and you are being "misunderstood" like you claim - then instead of going after us, you need to examine the way you are coming across... ...and i know i have told you this before..... but when a person can;t acknowledge what is good about someone nobody cares to hear him talk about what is bad.....
 
I'm responding at the end of this regarding Trump: he isn't a pastor I didn't want him to be. He knows business and loves America, Military, Police . Those are number 1 in my book. We never said a thing with Biden...............
 
subllibrm said:
You just misquoted me. Here, let me say it again:

"The church in America has sold her spiritual birthright for a bowl of political pottage." - me, circa 1996

Every concern I have mentioned regarding the GOP predates Mr. Trump. As I have said many times before, he is not the problem, he is a symptom of the problem. The problem is that the church is now unable to extricate itself from the partisan divide. That limits the church in proclaiming the gospel because of the ugly cultural baggage that is now firmly attached to her identity.

Have I been critical of Mr. Trump? Absolutely, and I will continue to do so when his behavior warrants such. Have I been critical of his supporters? Absolutely, insofar as they are willing to excuse or explain away his behavior.
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We’re so proud of you.
 
aleshanee said:
just curious..... did you make that statement in 1996 after voting for ross perot 4 years before?..... ....

just asking you a simple question here.... not trying to make any accusations... assumptions... misquotes... or misjudgments...:rolleyes:
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I didn't vote Perot.
aleshanee said:
i know people who believe christians should take no part in the political process at all..... they believe christians should not even vote but rather just sit back and allow whatever happens to happen.... . most of the statements you have made on this forum regarding politics seems to indicate you believe that as well.... ....if you do you should just come out and say
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Participation is not the problem. It's the damage to the name of Christ and the testimony of His church. Many examples have been provided.
aleshanee said:
.... but when a person can;t acknowledge what is good about someone nobody cares to hear him talk about what is bad.....
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So what is good about Democrats?
 
subllibrm said:
I didn't vote Perot.
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(y)
subllibrm said:
Participation is not the problem. It's the damage to the name of Christ and the testimony of His church. Many examples have been provided.
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and according to the ones i was talking about - participation alone is enough to cause that damage to the name of Christ..... even voting... irregardless of any other examples or whether anyone could avoid falling into them... . is that your position as well?... 🤨
subllibrm said:
So what is good about Democrats?
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they show us why it;s better to be republicans........ :cool:
 
aleshanee said:
and according to the ones i was talking about - participation alone is enough to cause that damage to the name of Christ..... even voting... regardless of any other examples or whether anyone could avoid falling into them... . is that your position as well?... 🤨
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No. If that were my position I would have said so.
 
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