In hind sight I understand

J

Just me

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During my many years in the IFB system I noticed a common thing occur with families.  When the kids get to be in their teenage years problems started to occur.  Not long there after many families were gone from the church.  In asking staff about them I would hear so many times that the teenagers had become rebellious and mom and dad would not stand up to them and correct them.  The parents took the kids side on issues and finally the family chose to not follow the Lord hand have left the church.  Not long after they were gone I would hear the classic pulpit story slamming the family and letting the congregation know how wicked they were thus we were to have nothing to do with them.  Of course the families name was never mentioned but the story was told so that everyone knew who was being preached about.

I now have come to a conclusion that the kids were not rebellious but rather had come to realize the hypocracy from the pulpit in so many areas.  In my family it was my children who saw it all first although we were not far behind in that regards.  The families who left did not leave in rebellion to the Lord but rather in obedience to Him and his Word.    That is why when ever I would run into them later down the road they were doing fine and had gone on to be faithful to our God.
 
I was thinking of starting a thread about the Teen Guru Bob Ross was suppose to be.  Any kid that that messed up was shunned and alienated, unless of course you were staff kid and then it was covered up like all good preachers do.   

He has done more to hurt kids and drive a wedge, between God and their parents, than anything out in the world has done.
 
The last thing I am is a WHBC apologist bc of my own personal experience and how it adversly affect friend around me.

Bob Ross isnt perfect and neither is anyone posting on this thread ( myself included ), blaming Bob Ross for somes teens not being in church is foolish bc eventually each persona makes the decision for themsleves whenther they want to do right or not.BR never profess to be a guru, those are his critics woprds not his. BR did defend the regime and tried to be a loyal church member but he also he did alot of good to help young people put themselves in the right position to make good decisions.

As far as staff kids getting away with stuff, I would tend to agree with you BUT that wasnt a BR thing that was from higher up.

 
Individual responsibility/accountability trumps all.  Not doubt about it.  Parents are also highly responsible for their kids and how they turn out.  That is why many families choose to leave the compound through the years because they would not let the leadership replace them in the raising of their children.

Now be sure though, leadership expected total loyalty to them.  You did what they say or the forces to get you to conform kicked in.  That is just how cultic environments operate.  Many would yield to that force and in effect turn their kids over to the authority.  Some never took it back and but many did.  Those who took it back or never gave it up in the first place left over the years because life was not pleasent for them if they stood firm on their parental resonsibility.

Ross was a key element in that control that was sought by the leadership.  He was the number 2 man for years and did as told completely and did it very well I might say.  But I do believe he would have performed the same way without direction from above.  Proof of that is what Tanner is saying of how he is now that he is the pastor and in charge down south.

These are just my first hand observation and opinion of how it worked there.
 
I didnt realize that BR had carried that on down to Texas. Sorry to hear that.

I will be the first to admit i dont know everything about every situation that goes on.  I just wish they would have handles some things differently.

 
Just me said:
During my many years in the IFB system I noticed a common thing occur with families.  When the kids get to be in their teenage years problems started to occur.  Not long there after many families were gone from the church.  In asking staff about them I would hear so many times that the teenagers had become rebellious and mom and dad would not stand up to them and correct them.  The parents took the kids side on issues and finally the family chose to not follow the Lord hand have left the church.  Not long after they were gone I would hear the classic pulpit story slamming the family and letting the congregation know how wicked they were thus we were to have nothing to do with them.  Of course the families name was never mentioned but the story was told so that everyone knew who was being preached about.

I now have come to a conclusion that the kids were not rebellious but rather had come to realize the hypocracy from the pulpit in so many areas.  In my family it was my children who saw it all first although we were not far behind in that regards.  The families who left did not leave in rebellion to the Lord but rather in obedience to Him and his Word.    That is why when ever I would run into them later down the road they were doing fine and had gone on to be faithful to our God.
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Very interesting.

I would point out a couple of variants:

One that I witnessed was that the children mouthed a prayer when very young, but were not saved. They continued to grow up with their parents (and maybe others) pointing out that they were saved at age 5 (or whatever), but they had no real relationship with Jesus Christ; they had no Holy Spirit indwelling them.  With many modern churches, they were entertained in church (lots of games, little teaching).

So, when they reached the teenage years, church no longer entertained them, and they thought the entire thing silly.  Having no renewed nature, they really do rebel against the teaching.  The parents must either take a hard stance; more often, they become embarrassed at their teen and leave.  In some cases, the parents blame the church for not "reaching" their teen, or other things.

Another variant is a truly saved child who sees the hypocrisy, as you point out, but it discourages them and they just tune out and appear to be rebellious because they don't want to participate in the hypcrotical system.

I've seen this second case as well.
 
Saved by Grace said:
I didnt realize that BR had carried that on down to Texas. Sorry to hear that.

I will be the first to admit i dont know everything about every situation that goes on.  I just wish they would have handles some things differently.
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You may be right about BR, but it sounds like he put loyalty above truth.
 
Walt said:
Very interesting.

I would point out a couple of variants:

One that I witnessed was that the children mouthed a prayer when very young, but were not saved. They continued to grow up with their parents (and maybe others) pointing out that they were saved at age 5 (or whatever), but they had no real relationship with Jesus Christ; they had no Holy Spirit indwelling them.  With many modern churches, they were entertained in church (lots of games, little teaching).

So, when they reached the teenage years, church no longer entertained them, and they thought the entire thing silly.  Having no renewed nature, they really do rebel against the teaching.  The parents must either take a hard stance; more often, they become embarrassed at their teen and leave.  In some cases, the parents blame the church for not "reaching" their teen, or other things.

Another variant is a truly saved child who sees the hypocrisy, as you point out, but it discourages them and they just tune out and appear to be rebellious because they don't want to participate in the hypcrotical system.

I've seen this second case as well.
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Yes, Walt, there always are variants for sure.  But in the many, many years I have spent in the system I would say there were more of your second variant then your first.

The overall convenience for leadership is to always blame the problems on the family or the individuals lack of obedience ignoring the facts of their own major inputs to the issue.  Many parents believed in the leaderships methods and principles and followed them only to see the error of leaderships ways. Unfortunately to late in some cases. 
 
There was an incident recently that was a result of throwing a girl away that was struggling in an area.  This girl was publicly humiliated and she went scorched earth.  BR asked the family to leave the church.  I do not want to get into specifics but if the leadership would have loved this girl and counseled with her (in private)  I beleive there would have been a better out come.

Another example is I know of a girl that started liking a boy outside the church.  He was a faithful southern baptist in a good home.  They kicked her out of school in her Senior year and preached against her for months.  A staff members kid was caught kissing a girl at school and suspended a week and they told everyone he was sick at home. 

My point about BR is he wants everyone to look at how great the kids are in his youth dept.  Thats easy when you either cover up or throw away kids.  Its all smoke and mirrors with alot of hot air. 
 
Hindsight is always 20/20. Sometimes I beat myself up thinking about the things that I now realize were wrong that I either followed, allowed, or participating in because "authority" said so. I wonder sometimes if my actions could have caused people to not come back to church thinking I was doing right because that is what we were taught.

At this point in my life there is nothing I can do about the past but I can for sure do this:
1. Warn others about the false way of teaching/doing things
2. I can make sure that I don't make the same mistake twice

I know that there are not many left but I can pray that eventually they will see the truth or admit to it and make that change in their life.
 
Tanner , i don't doubt that there is some truth to your story. But the older I get, i have realized the there are 2 sides to every story.  I dont believe in BR being infallible and he has things he needs to work on like all of us, but we have to make sure that we are not jumping in the crowd of those who have no desire to service just bc they dont like certain people either.

There are alot of people out there who just simply do not care to follow rules and do like authority from any kind . If that High school had a rule about no dating (which alot of Christian schools do for obvious reasons) than when a student and parents enroll they agree to honor those rules, if they dont their are consequences.

I dont like the judgmental attitude from alot of IFB lifers but i also dont like rebellious people that have NO regard for ANY rules of any kind either. Rules in a High school are not a bad thing  as long as they are enforced in love.

All im saying just bc they dont like BR doesnt automatically mean BR is wrong and this girl is right.
 
Never said it wasn't  :D

Even if others are hypocrites that is not an excuse to do wrong. Some folks are going to have to take the hand they've been dealt with make a conscience decision that they are going to do right regardless of WHBC does. Blaming WHBC for not doing right is not going to be a viable excuse at the judgement seat. We should be comparing our selves to Christ, BR , JAV, JF, and other staff members.

When we compare ourselves to staff at WHBC we could prob feel good about ourselves, BUT when we compare ourselves to the holiness of God ......... well i hope you get the idea.

Im not trying to be hard on anybody bc i was affected by WHBC OBC, but it is my desire that those who do get away from WHBC dont get away from God while they at it.


 
I'm trying to think if I've ever met anyone who ignores every kind of authority and will not follow any rule of any kind.

Nope...never met that person.
 
It's always the people's fault.
 
For me its not about liking BR, I thought he was exactly what our church needed, and gladly voted him in.  I agree with enforcing the rules of the school but it was different for a staff kid and two of his grand son's.  He gave up on kids too early and covered it up when it hit his back yard.
 
I would have a really difficult time going to a church where the pastor was under someone like the Vineyards for any amount of time.

I mean do these men really know how to communicate and interpret the Bible?  What do they do? Use a portion of Scripture as a spring board?


The preacher must preach the text, not the idea that brought him to the text. 
 
Tanner said:
For me its not about liking BR, I thought he was exactly what our church needed, and gladly voted him in.
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A lot of people felt the same way. I, personally, was thrilled when I heard that he was being discharged from Windsor Hills Correctional Facility after serving his 30 year sentence. I thought he was exactly what that church needed after all the drama they were going through.

I agree with enforcing the rules of the school but it was different for a staff kid and two of his grand son's.  He gave up on kids too early and covered it up when it hit his back yard.
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He watched it so much at FBCH and WHBC that it became a part of him. He is on auto pilot in matters such as this. I'm not sure he knows any other way to do it.
 
Tanner said:
I was thinking of starting a thread about the Teen Guru Bob Ross was suppose to be.  Any kid that that messed up was shunned and alienated, unless of course you were staff kid and then it was covered up like all good preachers do.   

He has done more to hurt kids and drive a wedge, between God and their parents, than anything out in the world has done.
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Ironically, there are dozens of former WHBC & OBC students on the mission field and doing very well. Almost every one of them will attribute their earthly motivation to serve the Lord, in part, to Bob Ross. Let's face it, Bob Ross was the face and the drawing card of OBC, and well as the WHBC youth department.

That being said, I know it is not a good deeds verses bad deeds issue. Just making an observation. That's why I said it was ironic...
 
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