In Honor Of Those Who Gave All For Our Country & For The Cause Of Christ

[T-Bone]

I hear they have the rain forest in that little 3rd world place where you live. Now I know they also have you. Would you do us all a favor & climb as far up in one of the rain forest trees & jump off into the nothingness that you brain has already reached.

This hit me this morning.  The  air of certainty you exude... that any view different than yours is brainless... that is the epitome of pride.  Have you ever in your life consider the idea that you (1) might not know everything (2) you might be wrong about something (3) and that you could still learn something new? 

This kind of attitude is the quintessential fundamentalist mindset... certainty is the measure of truth.  Therefore, if one's view differs from mine, apart from the merits of said view, it is certainly wrong b/c I am certain of truth. 

How can you be teachable with this kind of mentality?  I see such an anti-Christian worldview here: lack of humility and teachability. 

This is just my opinion.  I'm sure it wont even mean 2 cents to you.  But there it is, such as it is.

it seems you and i have at least one thing in common..... we both live on a tropical island covered in rainforests..... ..... except yours is in the atlantic and mine is in the pacific.............

but i must disagree with you on your views about memorial day and american servicemen.............. i think if you will examine history... and especially the history of world war 2 in the atlantic...... you will have to admit that sacrifices made by american servicemen... and also sacrifices of other allied servicemen as well.... did indeed assure freedom for hondurans as well as other people all over the world...... granted... the cause of america is not always the cause of Christ.... being navajo i can tell you of more than one time in the distant past when it certainly was not...... but i think if you look at the nature of the aggressors in world war 2.... and even some since then.... you might see those 2 causes are not always far apart either..... the attack on the world trade center sept 11 was an attack on the entire free world..... not just the united states.. .... and people from virtually every country in the free world were represented among those who died when the buildings collapsed....... 

but that being said... i know a lot of marines here in hawaii.... as a firefighter paramedic my dad helps train marines and navy corpsmen in combat life saving skills....  we spent monday morning at the punchbowl national cemetery of the pacific and among the graves we visited were a few of the marines and medics he trained over the past 2 decades..... i did not know them personally but i have known many other marines .... and i consider them to be among the finest people in the world.... the literal salt of the earth....... please don;t allow the arrogance and inappropriate attitude of one particular bad example on this forum to cast a negative reflection for you on all marines in general.... and not on all americans or servicemen either...... most of the marines and servicemen i know... especially those who have been to war and actually been in combat...  are very humble... and very courteous...  i for one feel very honored to know them......

Great post, but I doubt he will get it...I would hope he does, but I doubt it!

 

[Biker]

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends
John 15:13

 

[Bruh]

I respect all of those who have died in battle and those who have returned. 

I just have a hard time trusting this administration and the last administration as to why we are at war any longer with any country.  Blind Loyalty to government or a Pastor, just wrong.   

 

[Bruh]

I thought it was obvious, but I mentioned no Honduran ever dying for me.  I live in Honduras.  It is straight up 3rd world.  I get discriminated against constantly.  There are so many backwards ideas and aweful cultural mores here, it drives me bonkers.

That said, I'm not advocating the promotion of any nation.  Heck, I pulled for Sweden in Olympic hockey this past go round b/c they had more Red Wing players than any other team.  Like I said, I don't really care where I live.  I'm not attached to a geo-political program here.  I am for God's kingdom.  I look forward to the consummation of his reign throughout all the earth for all eternity.  If that is my mindset now, why would I bother focusing on how awesome America is?  Why celebrate the sacrifice for something that has no eternal value?

So I don't care how nations are born.  God's nation, the Kingdom of God, was birthed on the cross.  I will celebrate that.  I will honor that.  But fighting for a country that will be shadow and dust in the grand scheme of things seems like a misplaced allegiance.  Idolatry if you will.  And don't get me started on the pledge of allegiance. 

(I'm still waiting for those who "fight for freedom" to stand up to the hypocrisy from those that say I must be patriotic or leave when I supposedly have the freedom not to be patriotic)

Personally , I believe you are free as anybody else to believe what you like. I believe you are wrong on the idolatry part or the service part... But hey that's why I served our nation AND why I serve our Lord! I don't equate the two, but respond to each as I am biblically told to... I do give honor where honor is due.

Do you really believe that is why our government sent you to battle?

 

[Timotheos]

I hear they have the rain forest in that little 3rd world place where you live. Now I know they also have you. Would you do us all a favor & climb as far up in one of the rain forest trees & jump off into the nothingness that you brain has already reached.

This hit me this morning.  The  air of certainty you exude... that any view different than yours is brainless... that is the epitome of pride.  Have you ever in your life consider the idea that you (1) might not know everything (2) you might be wrong about something (3) and that you could still learn something new? 

This kind of attitude is the quintessential fundamentalist mindset... certainty is the measure of truth.  Therefore, if one's view differs from mine, apart from the merits of said view, it is certainly wrong b/c I am certain of truth. 

How can you be teachable with this kind of mentality?  I see such an anti-Christian worldview here: lack of humility and teachability. 

This is just my opinion.  I'm sure it wont even mean 2 cents to you.  But there it is, such as it is.

it seems you and i have at least one thing in common..... we both live on a tropical island covered in rainforests..... ..... except yours is in the atlantic and mine is in the pacific.............

but i must disagree with you on your views about memorial day and american servicemen.............. i think if you will examine history... and especially the history of world war 2 in the atlantic...... you will have to admit that sacrifices made by american servicemen... and also sacrifices of other allied servicemen as well.... did indeed assure freedom for hondurans as well as other people all over the world...... granted... the cause of america is not always the cause of Christ.... being navajo i can tell you of more than one time in the distant past when it certainly was not...... but i think if you look at the nature of the aggressors in world war 2.... and even some since then.... you might see those 2 causes are not always far apart either..... the attack on the world trade center sept 11 was an attack on the entire free world..... not just the united states.. .... and people from virtually every country in the free world were represented among those who died when the buildings collapsed....... 

but that being said... i know a lot of marines here in hawaii.... as a firefighter paramedic my dad helps train marines and navy corpsmen in combat life saving skills....  we spent monday morning at the punchbowl national cemetery of the pacific and among the graves we visited were a few of the marines and medics he trained over the past 2 decades..... i did not know them personally but i have known many other marines .... and i consider them to be among the finest people in the world.... the literal salt of the earth....... please don;t allow the arrogance and inappropriate attitude of one particular bad example on this forum to cast a negative reflection for you on all marines in general.... and not on all americans or servicemen either...... most of the marines and servicemen i know... especially those who have been to war and actually been in combat...  are very humble... and very courteous...  i for one feel very honored to know them......

Honduras is not an island, but it borders both the Pacific and Atlantic.

Second, this is not for me a fight over freedom (a myth).  I'm content to live in a land of no freedom.  In some ways, I do, Honduras being the most violent nation in the world per capita.  There are more important issues at stake.  In fact, America would probably be better off if the church were persecuted. 

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

 

[fishinnut]

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

It appears that your spirituality is overwhelming.......you.
Please keep it on your side of our borders......

.....because it ain't looking good from here.

 

[Timotheos]

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

It appears that your spirituality is overwhelming.......you.
Please keep it on your side of our borders......

.....because it ain't looking good from here.

Every post and every reply you make confirms in my mind more and more how right I am.  You don't really help your cause.  I'm guessing it is the marine in you (I think that is what you were implying a few pics ago) that thinks the best way to teach or convince someone is to shove it down their throats. 

My non-patriotic conclusions did not come to me easily.  But they are reasoned out and biblically informed.  I have yet to see you demonstrate something similar.

 

[fishinnut]

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

It appears that your spirituality is overwhelming.......you.
Please keep it on your side of our borders......

.....because it ain't looking good from here.

Every post and every reply you make confirms in my mind more and more how right I am.  You don't really help your cause.  I'm guessing it is the marine in you (I think that is what you were implying a few pics ago) that thinks the best way to teach or convince someone is to shove it down their throats. 

My non-patriotic conclusions did not come to me easily.  But they are reasoned out and biblically informed.  I have yet to see you demonstrate something similar.

 

[christundivided]

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

You're far to liberal to be like Fred Phelps.... but you're sure are sounding like him.

God has his way in every country. He does so through the Godly and the ungodly. For you to broadly declare the dying for a evil country... .has no eternal value..... is really nonsense. Those who do so in the will of God, being obedient to His divine will, certainly shall receive some type of eternal reward. You can't classify such as "wood, hay and stubble".

By the way...... I do things every day that have very little to no eternal value. I take a bath. I drink a diet coke or two... or maybe three... who am I kidding.... a half dozen or so.... etc... etc... blah... blah... blah. Also, you should stop to consider that many of those who join the military.... do so to have a job. To work. I find their place in society. All this "eternal" value nonsense you're throwing around tends to ignore all of this.

 

[Timotheos]

So I say again, why should Christians get all worked up over something that has no eternal value?  Dying for the cause of Christ... eternal value.  Dying for a country that is evil... being proud of a country that is evil... patriotism to an evil country... wood, hay, and stubble.

You're far to liberal to be like Fred Phelps.... but you're sure are sounding like him.

God has his way in every country. He does so through the Godly and the ungodly. For you to broadly declare the dying for a evil country... .has no eternal value..... is really nonsense. Those who do so in the will of God, being obedient to His divine will, certainly shall receive some type of eternal reward. You can't classify such as "wood, hay and stubble".

By the way...... I do things every day that have very little to no eternal value. I take a bath. I drink a diet coke or two... or maybe three... who am I kidding.... a half dozen or so.... etc... etc... blah... blah... blah. Also, you should stop to consider that many of those who join the military.... do so to have a job. To work. I find their place in society. All this "eternal" value nonsense you're throwing around tends to ignore all of this.

Calling the most infanticidal nation of all time evil is like calling a spade a spade.  I hate what God hates.  I also love what God loves.  I believe God both hates and loves America.  That is a discussion for another thread, however.

It is funny you mentioned eating or drinking, as if that can't glorify God when Paul said otherwise.  There is something to gardening and working as it relates to the kingdom of God as well as fulfilling the adamic image-bearing mission.  I wouldn't quickly call "eternal value" stuff nonsense either.  Laying up treasures... setting our minds on things above... these are biblical ideas.

And isn't the military often called "service"?  In one respect, I agree w/ what you are saying as far as doing a job.  And so military, police, and a host of other careers are living out the image of God.  But people die in their jobs all the time.  Cops... construction workers... teachers!!!  What makes their death more noble to warrant an annual holiday is that the thing they are serving has become an idol of sorts: America.  I am against Americanism, not necessarily against the American military.  Perhaps I should be clearer on that than I have been here. 

 

[christundivided]

Calling the most infanticidal nation of all time evil is like calling a spade a spade.  I hate what God hates.  I also love what God loves.  I believe God both hates and loves America.  That is a discussion for another thread, however.

Okay. Just would like to say infanticidal societies have existed for thousands of years. Some spanning multiple centuries. I wouldn't say the US is the worst.

It is funny you mentioned eating or drinking, as if that can't glorify God when Paul said otherwise.  There is something to gardening and working as it relates to the kingdom of God as well as fulfilling the adamic image-bearing mission.  I wouldn't quickly call "eternal value" stuff nonsense either.  Laying up treasures... setting our minds on things above... these are biblical ideas.

I wasn't calling eternal value... "nonsense". I was speaking to your application of it. You seemed to be so focused on decrying anything that had no eternal value that you were ignoring the obvious things we do everyday that will soon fade into history. I was just making the point that you can't use the "no eternal value" argument to justify why you believe the way you believe.

And isn't the military often called "service"?  In one respect, I agree w/ what you are saying as far as doing a job.  And so military, police, and a host of other careers are living out the image of God.  But people die in their jobs all the time.  Cops... construction workers... teachers!!!  What makes their death more noble to warrant an annual holiday is that the thing they are serving has become an idol of sorts: America.  I am against Americanism, not necessarily against the American military.  Perhaps I should be clearer on that than I have been here.

I wouldn't say it was greater.... It probably has more to do with large quantity of individuals that gave their lives over a short period of time. Add the fact they were fighting an enemy.... often an enemy to all that is good. Say... maybe... Hitler.... or maybe The Empire of Japan who set himself up as a living "God". Do you not see any difference at all?

 

[Timotheos]

Calling the most infanticidal nation of all time evil is like calling a spade a spade.  I hate what God hates.  I also love what God loves.  I believe God both hates and loves America.  That is a discussion for another thread, however.

Okay. Just would like to say infanticidal societies have existed for thousands of years. Some spanning multiple centuries. I wouldn't say the US is the worst.

Agree to disagree.  Have infanticidal societies existed for thousands of years?  Yes, but America's abortion rate far exceeds those other socieites (probably combined).

I wasn't calling eternal value... "nonsense". I was speaking to your application of it. You seemed to be so focused on decrying anything that had no eternal value that you were ignoring the obvious things we do everyday that will soon fade into history. I was just making the point that you can't use the "no eternal value" argument to justify why you believe the way you believe.

If you go back to my initial post, the eternal value of dying for a nation vs dying for the cause of Christ seemed to be equated.  And the way that America is idolized by patriots, there are some people who do believe there is an equal eternal value for dying for America.

I wouldn't say it was greater.... It probably has more to do with large quantity of individuals that gave their lives over a short period of time. Add the fact they were fighting an enemy.... often an enemy to all that is good. Say... maybe... Hitler.... or maybe The Empire of Japan who set himself up as a living "God". Do you not see any difference at all?

I guess I am letting the book of Revelation be my guide.  As a polemic against the evil of the Roman empire, the urge to Christians was not to pick up a sword and fight the evil empires w/ emperors who set themselves up as gods.  It was to separate from that evil empire.  Even if it cost you your life.  I see America in a very similar light.  The imperial cult is not emperor worship but Americanism (nation worship).  And I think there is plenty wrong in America (abortion for one) that makes the nation as a nation wicked. 

 

[fishinnut]

I hear they have the rain forest in that little 3rd world place where you live. Now I know they also have you. Would you do us all a favor & climb as far up in one of the rain forest trees & jump off into the nothingness that you brain has already reached.

Hey nutcase,

I'm guessing in calling me "proud" that you neglected to also strike out at yourself.....

"Timotheos
Reformed & Proud
Full Member".​

BTW this guy wants to give you your hat back.......

 

[T-Bone]

I respect all of those who have died in battle and those who have returned. 

I just have a hard time trusting this administration and the last administration as to why we are at war any longer with any country.  Blind Loyalty to government or a Pastor, just wrong. 

With this I agree.

 

[T-Bone]

I thought it was obvious, but I mentioned no Honduran ever dying for me.  I live in Honduras.  It is straight up 3rd world.  I get discriminated against constantly.  There are so many backwards ideas and aweful cultural mores here, it drives me bonkers.

That said, I'm not advocating the promotion of any nation.  Heck, I pulled for Sweden in Olympic hockey this past go round b/c they had more Red Wing players than any other team.  Like I said, I don't really care where I live.  I'm not attached to a geo-political program here.  I am for God's kingdom.  I look forward to the consummation of his reign throughout all the earth for all eternity.  If that is my mindset now, why would I bother focusing on how awesome America is?  Why celebrate the sacrifice for something that has no eternal value?

So I don't care how nations are born.  God's nation, the Kingdom of God, was birthed on the cross.  I will celebrate that.  I will honor that.  But fighting for a country that will be shadow and dust in the grand scheme of things seems like a misplaced allegiance.  Idolatry if you will.  And don't get me started on the pledge of allegiance. 

(I'm still waiting for those who "fight for freedom" to stand up to the hypocrisy from those that say I must be patriotic or leave when I supposedly have the freedom not to be patriotic)

Personally , I believe you are free as anybody else to believe what you like. I believe you are wrong on the idolatry part or the service part... But hey that's why I served our nation AND why I serve our Lord! I don't equate the two, but respond to each as I am biblically told to... I do give honor where honor is due.

Do you really believe that is why our government sent you to battle?

In some cases yes and some no....But a soldier does not always know the reasons behind deployment.

 

[christundivided]

I guess I am letting the book of Revelation be my guide.  As a polemic against the evil of the Roman empire, the urge to Christians was not to pick up a sword and fight the evil empires w/ emperors who set themselves up as gods.  It was to separate from that evil empire.  Even if it cost you your life.  I see America in a very similar light.  The imperial cult is not emperor worship but Americanism (nation worship).  And I think there is plenty wrong in America (abortion for one) that makes the nation as a nation wicked.

Big difference. If there was a country in place such as the US...actively battling a Roman empire during the times of the apostles.... You don't know what the apostles would have said. Its not an apples to apples comparison.

I don't think you can logically make such comparisons. The apostles showed undying loyalty to nation Israel.