Is David Cloud Right?

[Twisted]

 

[brianb]

As an example: If there is someone who is stealing and the preacher is preaching against theft, that person should either repent or leave the church (some may stay because they've become immune to the preaching).  It's scriptural to preach against sin (but it has to be scriptural sin, not opinion).  So only in that sense he is right.   

 

[ALAYMAN]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

 

[brianb]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

I think he's talking about entire congregations (people) not individuals. There are always unconverted people in churches though not part of the true church. Revelation 2 and 3 mentions these kinds of churches. It could be a church like the Ephesian church that has left their first love (sin of omission) and is danger of being removed.   

 

[Walt]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

Judas was moved to betray Jesus.

 

[Walt]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

I think he's talking about entire congregations (people) not individuals. There are always unconverted people in churches though not part of the true church. Revelation 2 and 3 mentions these kinds of churches. It could be a church like the Ephesian church that has left their first love (sin of omission) and is danger of being removed. 

Yes, there are unconverted in church; however, I would think that the Holy Spirit would convict them and they would either want to get right or else they wouldn't come back.

 

[Twisted]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

It turned out exactly how it needed to turn out.

Judas was "a devil" and will make his return soon.

 

[Ransom]

If the circumstances were a little different--say, a missionary working in a country that was traditionally antagonistic to Christianity--we would praise the missionary for his faithfulness in the face of adversity. I don't really see the difference. A biblically faithful, evangelical preacher in a liberal congregation is just a smaller mission field--and potentially a more challenging one, since they have already had a sample of the true gospel, and you know what Hebrews says about such people.

 

[Saved by Grace]

Its the job of the preacher to preach thus saith the Lord..

Conviction is a work of the holy Spirit.
There is something wrong that David Cloud is making this about the preacher and preaching and results rather than the individual listening.

You can show up for church and not ever really be there.

The preaching should be strong and fervent but the results arent indicative of the preaching alone. It does help that he is an effective communicator (apt to teach) .

This just looks like Mr David Cloud laying siege to his fellow brethren.

 

[Twisted]

This just looks like Mr David Cloud laying siege to his fellow brethren.

That's his "calling", bro.

 

[T-Bone]

The "preacher" is not the Holy Spirit...must have been something seriously wrong with Jeremiah...seems nobody listened to him. The "preacher" does not touch hearts, nor does he effect change...only the Holy Spirit can do that. With that being said the "preacher" should always preach the whole counsel of the Word of God without partiality or compromise. The results belong to the Lord!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The "preacher" is not the Holy Spirit...must have been something seriously wrong with Jeremiah...seems nobody listened to him. The "preacher" does not touch hearts, nor does he effect change...only the Holy Spirit can do that. With that being said the "preacher" should always preach the whole counsel of the Word of God without partiality or compromise. The results belong to the Lord!

Exactly!
Wish I?d said that! 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Judas listened to Jesus sermons for three years.  How'd that turn out?

I think he's talking about entire congregations (people) not individuals. There are always unconverted people in churches though not part of the true church. Revelation 2 and 3 mentions these kinds of churches. It could be a church like the Ephesian church that has left their first love (sin of omission) and is danger of being removed. 

On a trip to Canada years ago I stopped at his sending church and talked to his pastor.  Nice enough fella, but through the conversation it confirmed my bias against Cloud's version of nigh-Lordship Salvation.  One thing that stood out particularly was that when a person professed to trust Christ that they were made to wait for some period of time (months if memory is correct) in order to make sure their conversion was real (in ye olden days it was to catechize folk).  I'm agin that sort of thing as a rule.  I tell that story because it smacks of what others have alluded to on this thread, that Cloud is (or seems to be) trying to do the work of the Spirit.  Just preach the word and do your job, let God do the rest.  Biblically speaking, don't try to sort the wheat from the tares.

 

[bruinboy]

Cloud right?  There is always a first time.  I got in quite a row with him back in the day via email. Let's say he was less than christian in his response. IMHO of course. He is a piece of work for sure.

 

[Izdaari]

Occasionally, on the stopped clock principle. It's hard for anyone to be wrong all the time, though Spamderson and Rep. Adam Schiff give it their best shot.

 

[Dr. Bob]

David Cloud . . . right

Together, that is oxymoronic

Just his name is moronic

 

[brianb]

I like his massive collection of Baptist History though. I'm now reading The History of the English Baptists (John Gill was a pretty cool dude - I just don't agree with the Calvinism).