Is extravagance sinful.

[pastorryanhayden]

This is one that I've never heard preached about but seems to be taught in the NT.  (many would argue that non-extravagance is the meaning of modest and James seems to deal with this in his critique of the rich man.). What's your take?  Is it appropriate for a preacher to wear $1500 suits?  Just looking for your thoughts here. Scripture to back them up would be awesome too.

 

[Castor Muscular]

My take is that some people spend entirely too much time looking for things that might be sinful. 

 

[Izdaari]

I'll let you know after I try out my new Bentley convertible.  8)

http://youtu.be/RYnFIRc0k6E

 

[christundivided]

This is one that I've never heard preached about but seems to be taught in the NT.  (many would argue that non-extravagance is the meaning of modest and James seems to deal with this in his critique of the rich man.). What's your take?  Is it appropriate for a preacher to wear $1500 suits?  Just looking for your thoughts here. Scripture to back them up would be awesome too.

There is a great misconception concerning how "those that do the work of God" should look like or how they should "appear". Appearance doesn't often tell the "whole story".

There is a danger of the "rich" trusting in their own efforts or wealth. Paul said is perfectly when he wrote...

1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

There are those who are rich, that are very "highminded". Or you could say "haughty" or "supercilious". Paul is certainly preaching against such here. Yet, I can't say one preacher wearing a $1500 suit is just like the next preacher wearing a $1500 suit.

The problem isn't so much with the $1500 suit. Some "preachers" can be "supercilious" wearing a $30 suit from Goodwill. Its about attitude. Attitude about ones self and attitude toward others. Np preacher should act "superior" to anyone else. We all know how that is playing out these days. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Yes.  The name of the sin is gluttony.

I believe we are to care for our family, which means we should provide a modest or comfortable living.  I think that the pastor should live equally with the mid-range income of his church.  I do not understand pastors living in extravagance.  Take a pastor who has a show-car, two trucks, a mini-van and a two luxury cars, a boat and two rv's, along with a nice home and, and, and, and....  Contrast this with Jonathan Wesley who once bought himself a nice picture to hang in his home - just after hanging the picture, a lady knocked on his door in desperate need of a coat.  Wesley felt guilty and never again would spend money on items he felt a luxury because his brothers and sisters in Christ were in need.

The Bible clearly teaches the love of money is the root of all evil.  Gluttony is sin.  Telling people that as long as you don't love your gluttony, it is not sin is perverting the Scripture.  When the gluttonous pastor asks his staff to live on welfare because the church needs to spend its money on ministry - he definitely loves the root of all evil.  We, as members of a church, are to equally sacrifice in our giving so that others may be comforted and the Gospel may spread.  In other words, benevolence and missions are two purposes in giving in the NT church - not bank rolls and time-shares and gluttony.

I challenge you to find a pastor in the Bible who lived in luxury.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I challenge you to find a pastor in the Bible who lived in luxury.

Abraham lived in luxury.  Solomon lived in luxury.  I'm sure David was very comfortable, and I'm sure there are many more. 

Don't look at me, though.  What little I have is falling apart.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

My take is that some people spend entirely too much time looking for things that might be sinful.

I actually agree with you.

I've heard some people say that extravagance is sinful and immodest.  I think that is what Amish & Mennonites teach.  I've read some baptist bloggers who say the same thing.

I wear suits to church most of the time (mine come from yard sales and clearance racks), but the more I think about it lately "dressing to the nines" just doesn't feel appropriate.  For one, I pastor in a decidedly blue collar town and two I don't think it goes along with humility towards a Holy God.

I still think we should wear respectable clothes to the church house.  I wouldn't go to church in my sweats,  I'm just questioning whether we go too far with the dressing up thing. 

 

[christundivided]

My take is that some people spend entirely too much time looking for things that might be sinful.

I actually agree with you.

I've heard some people say that extravagance is sinful and immodest.  I think that is what Amish & Mennonites teach.  I've read some baptist bloggers who say the same thing.

I wear suits to church most of the time (mine come from yard sales and clearance racks), but the more I think about it lately "dressing to the nines" just doesn't feel appropriate.  For one, I pastor in a decidedly blue collar town and two I don't think it goes along with humility towards a Holy God.

I still think we should wear respectable clothes to the church house.  I wouldn't go to church in my sweats,  I'm just questioning whether we go too far with the dressing up thing.

Just how can you tell someone is wearing a $1500 suit or that a person paid $1500 for a suit?

I'd say, if someone really goes to the lengths it takes to prove a suit is really worth $1500.....that person might have more of an issue than the one wearing the $1500 suit.

 

[christundivided]

I challenge you to find a pastor in the Bible who lived in luxury.

Abraham lived in luxury.  Solomon lived in luxury.  I'm sure David was very comfortable, and I'm sure there are many more. 

Don't look at me, though.  What little I have is falling apart.

Php 4:12  I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I challenge you to find a pastor in the Bible who lived in luxury.

Abraham lived in luxury.  Solomon lived in luxury.  I'm sure David was very comfortable, and I'm sure there are many more. 

Don't look at me, though.  What little I have is falling apart.

None of these three were pastors or even priests.  Try again.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I challenge you to find a pastor in the Bible who lived in luxury.

Abraham lived in luxury.  Solomon lived in luxury.  I'm sure David was very comfortable, and I'm sure there are many more. 

Don't look at me, though.  What little I have is falling apart.

Php 4:12  I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

But read Php 3 - Php 3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, Php 3:9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Besides that, what about the beatings and being left for dead and the imprisonments and the execution? 

We are to be content (full) even in our need.

 

[rsc2a]

Extravagance can be sinful. It isn't necessarily sinful. Is it sinful to drop $10k for a party that lasts a few hours? Is it sinful to take your wife to a $150 dinner?

...sometimes...


[quote author=Binaca Chugger]The Bible clearly teaches the love of money is the root of all evil.[/quote] 

And, no. A bad phrasing of a single passage in a particular translation teaches this. The Bible doesn't.

 

[Fresh Air]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]The Bible clearly teaches the love of money is the root of all evil.

 

And, no. A bad phrasing of a single passage in a particular translation teaches this. The Bible doesn't.
[/quote]

If you really believe that then I must say, respectfully, that you are an idiot.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]The Bible clearly teaches the love of money is the root of all evil.

 

And, no. A bad phrasing of a single passage in a particular translation teaches this. The Bible doesn't.

If you really believe that then I must say, respectfully, that you are an idiot.[/quote]

What part of love of money is involved when I let my eyes linger too long on the backside of a lady other than my wife?

 

[Fresh Air]

Having money and spending it isn't sinful. As the one brother mentioned, pride is always sinful, and if spending it leads to/contributes to your pride then there is a problem. I would also argue that the biblical principal of stewardship is directly applicable here. If we don't actually own anything, and we are only managing it for God's use then the ? becomes is it a wise use of God's money to spend $1500 on a suit?

 

[Fresh Air]

What part of love of money is involved when I let my eyes linger too long on the backside of a lady other than my wife?

Lust is an unholy desire. By no means is that limited to sex.

 

[rsc2a]

What part of love of money is involved when I let my eyes linger too long on the backside of a lady other than my wife?

Lust is an unholy desire. By no means is that limited to sex.

Yes...now do you want to answer the question? Respectfully-called idiots want to know.

 

[Castor Muscular]

The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, not the root of ALL evil. 

 

[rsc2a]

The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, not the root of ALL evil.

*nods*

 

[pastorryanhayden]

The $1500 dollar suit thing was just an example.  I didn't want to limit the conversation to whether or not it is appropriate for pastors to wear $1500 suits nor did I mean to suggest that pastors should live in poverty.  Our church takes care of me and I live at around the average level of our congregants.  I'm grateful for that.
I've just been around a lot of Christians that think "dressing to the nines" is some kind of high Christian virtue, when the opposite seems true in scripture.