Is God asking his children to lie?

[.tim]

So, again, when Jesus says, "If the Father does not bring a person to me, that one cannot come." He is basically saying to the Jews, seeing nothing more than a Jewish carpenter, "If you can not see God in me, you will never see The Messiah"

Like I've said about the KJVOs, you ought to host your own ghost hunter show.  You have a knack for seeing things that aren't there. 

1 John 2:2 is so clear to me that Jesus died for all of mankind.

Then all mankind is saved.  And you think Calvinists have no reason to evangelize.

Jesus died for mankind, but mankind must by faith accept this gift. God doesn't force grace on us.

Your right, God doesn't force, he predestinated. Was Paul seeking Christ  on the road Damascus? Did Lazurus help in having Christ bring him back to life? The only thing we offer God is the sin that need to be forgiven

Is it a sin to have faith? "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

 

[.tim]

1 John 2:2 is so clear to me that Jesus died for all of mankind. "He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people." It is using this passage I can give hope to every person I share the gospel with. Not a "did you get the presentation" sort of hope -  but a "The Creator of the Universe LOVES you" kind of hope.

Let me ask you something that CU seems to not want to answer? in the OT was the temple sacrifices for the children of Israel or the whole world?
Are you a Universalist? So if Jesus died for the whole world, then love wins in the end? all are saved? is that what you are implying?

The temple sacrifices were for the Children of Israel. The sin curse was for all of mankind, and so, by one man (Jesus Christ), all can now freely come to the throne of grace. No limit. No special people. Just sinners saved by grace. And only by faith can a sinner be saved. So, Jesus loved the world and died for the sins of the worlds human population - but, each man and woman must come to the cross and believe to be saved.

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he did for the world, then everybody is saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

"without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Jesus died, but only those who accept the gift will be saved.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

1 John 2:2 is so clear to me that Jesus died for all of mankind. "He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people." It is using this passage I can give hope to every person I share the gospel with. Not a "did you get the presentation" sort of hope -  but a "The Creator of the Universe LOVES you" kind of hope.

Let me ask you something that CU seems to not want to answer? in the OT was the temple sacrifices for the children of Israel or the whole world?
Are you a Universalist? So if Jesus died for the whole world, then love wins in the end? all are saved? is that what you are implying?

The temple sacrifices were for the Children of Israel. The sin curse was for all of mankind, and so, by one man (Jesus Christ), all can now freely come to the throne of grace. No limit. No special people. Just sinners saved by grace. And only by faith can a sinner be saved. So, Jesus loved the world and died for the sins of the worlds human population - but, each man and woman must come to the cross and believe to be saved.

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he did for the world, then everybody is saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

"without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Jesus died, but only those who accept the gift will be saved.

You repeat the crap that pastors teach really well.  Now read the Bible and stop adding all the crap to it.

 

[.tim]

1 John 2:2 is so clear to me that Jesus died for all of mankind. "He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people." It is using this passage I can give hope to every person I share the gospel with. Not a "did you get the presentation" sort of hope -  but a "The Creator of the Universe LOVES you" kind of hope.

Let me ask you something that CU seems to not want to answer? in the OT was the temple sacrifices for the children of Israel or the whole world?
Are you a Universalist? So if Jesus died for the whole world, then love wins in the end? all are saved? is that what you are implying?

The temple sacrifices were for the Children of Israel. The sin curse was for all of mankind, and so, by one man (Jesus Christ), all can now freely come to the throne of grace. No limit. No special people. Just sinners saved by grace. And only by faith can a sinner be saved. So, Jesus loved the world and died for the sins of the worlds human population - but, each man and woman must come to the cross and believe to be saved.

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he did for the world, then everybody is saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

"without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Jesus died, but only those who accept the gift will be saved.

You repeat the crap that pastors teach really well.  Now read the Bible and stop adding all the crap to it.

I will let the Holy Spirit know that you believe His teachings to be crap.

 

[Recovering IFB]

1 John 2:2 is so clear to me that Jesus died for all of mankind. "He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people." It is using this passage I can give hope to every person I share the gospel with. Not a "did you get the presentation" sort of hope -  but a "The Creator of the Universe LOVES you" kind of hope.

Let me ask you something that CU seems to not want to answer? in the OT was the temple sacrifices for the children of Israel or the whole world?
Are you a Universalist? So if Jesus died for the whole world, then love wins in the end? all are saved? is that what you are implying?

The temple sacrifices were for the Children of Israel. The sin curse was for all of mankind, and so, by one man (Jesus Christ), all can now freely come to the throne of grace. No limit. No special people. Just sinners saved by grace. And only by faith can a sinner be saved. So, Jesus loved the world and died for the sins of the worlds human population - but, each man and woman must come to the cross and believe to be saved.

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he did for the world, then everybody is saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

"without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Jesus died, but only those who accept the gift will be saved.

First off; faith is given by God, you bring nothing to the table in salvation, your "faith" is given to you when God opened your eyes, you coming to him is you reacting to his calling you, you know like, "Lazarus, come forth!"
Second; did you read those verses I posted? Christ lays down his life for his sheep, not the while human race, hence the shadow of Christ in the OT in the sacrificices, it was for the children of Israel

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I will let the Holy Spirit know that you believe His teachings to be crap.

Psssst.  Your pastor is not the Holy Spirit.

 

[.tim]

I will let the Holy Spirit know that you believe His teachings to be crap.

Psssst.  Your pastor is not the Holy Spirit.

No. But the same Holy Spirit that guides my Bible reading also guides his own study time and sermon preparation.

 

[Recovering IFB]

So Tim, what input did Paul have in his conversion experience? What decision did Lazarus make that caused Jesus to raise him from the dead?

 

[.tim]

So Tim, what input did Paul have in his conversion experience? What decision did Lazarus make that caused Jesus to raise him from the dead?

Paul is a special conversion experience. Not sure we can compare his to ours since he was also an apostle to the gentiles. Paul said of that special visit, "... and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." Paul clearly acknowledges this was a special visit unlike any other. Sure, Paul was chosen ... like Peter or John ... but they responded and followed. We all can follow the call.

Who can know what happened to Lazarus after he died, or what he prayed here on earth. Jesus does all sorts of miracles in my own life I can hardly explain. One day I will see it all clearly in heaven - and if Lazarus died he probably did appear in heaven for awhile. Maybe God shared with Lazarus how he would play a role with the ministry of Christ on earth. We know Jesus loved him - maybe more time of earth was needed and Christ granted this. Doesn't God know to give good gifts to those he loves?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he died for the world, then everybody is saved.

Again,  this is a ridiculous argument because even Calvinists don't believe that everyone that Jesus died for is saved. Some might not get saved until tomorrow.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he died for the world, then everybody is saved.

Again,  this is a ridiculous argument because even Calvinists don't believe that everyone that Jesus died for is saved. Some might not get saved until tomorrow.

I am not trying to be rude, but I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Jesus lays down his life for his sheep (John 15:13; John 10:11) if he died for the world, then everybody is saved.

Again,  this is a ridiculous argument because even Calvinists don't believe that everyone that Jesus died for is saved. Some might not get saved until tomorrow.

I am not trying to be rude, but I don't understand what you are saying.

Maybe I got it!?!
I disagree, the L in TULIP is limited atonement, Christ died, she'd his blood for the church. It doesn't matter when a person gets saved, God has ordained a time wen somebody dies, he/she has already been elected.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

So Tim, what input did Paul have in his conversion experience? What decision did Lazarus make that caused Jesus to raise him from the dead?

Paul is a special conversion experience. Not sure we can compare his to ours since he was also an apostle to the gentiles. Paul said of that special visit, "... and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born." Paul clearly acknowledges this was a special visit unlike any other. Sure, Paul was chosen ... like Peter or John ... but they responded and followed. We all can follow the call.

Who can know what happened to Lazarus after he died, or what he prayed here on earth. Jesus does all sorts of miracles in my own life I can hardly explain. One day I will see it all clearly in heaven - and if Lazarus died he probably did appear in heaven for awhile. Maybe God shared with Lazarus how he would play a role with the ministry of Christ on earth. We know Jesus loved him - maybe more time of earth was needed and Christ granted this. Doesn't God know to give good gifts to those he loves?

Depends on what you believe about Pauls conversion. I have heard it taught many times that Paul conversion occurred in Acts 9;6, and I once held to that as well, but I no longer see this. Consider vs 8&9. Paul's sight has not been restored. Metaphorically, physical blindness is spiritual blindness often in the scriptures. Now look at vs 17. Ananias is sent by God to speak to Paul, a man who just had a traumatic experience that caused him to examine his soul, which is much more consistent with God's method of operation. Men were commissioned to preach the gospel, the lack of the gospel blinds the mind, the entrance of the gospel provides sight, the salvation of the soul coincides with the reception of the Holy Spirit, and the first acot of obedience is baptism. I see Pauls conversion in vs 18 not vs 6, also making Pauls acceptance of the gospel as opposed to some view of irresistible grace much more consistent.

 

[Ransom]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

 

[BandGuy]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...










Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...

Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

We disagreed about as much as two could disagree on free will, etc.  But I'm sorry to see him go. 

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...










Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

I dunno Band Guy, I disagreed with him often, but he certainly put time into his thoughts.

Anyone else notice CU's disagreements really got rolling after the situation with a family member? He posted often here, but it really took a turn after that announcement.

Just gonna pray for him. Not sure what he is going through, but I know a God who does.

 

[BandGuy]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...










Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

I dunno Band Guy, I disagreed with him often, but he certainly put time into his thoughts.

Anyone else notice CU's disagreements really got rolling after the situation with a family member? He posted often here, but it really took a turn after that announcement.

Just gonna pray for him. Not sure what he is going through, but I know a God who does.

I think I missed all of that.  What are you talking about?

 

[lnf]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...










Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

I dunno Band Guy, I disagreed with him often, but he certainly put time into his thoughts.

Anyone else notice CU's disagreements really got rolling after the situation with a family member? He posted often here, but it really took a turn after that announcement.

Just gonna pray for him. Not sure what he is going through, but I know a God who does.

I agree with you, ItinerantPreacher...he has seemed to be almost frenetic lately...and then this.  I'm concerned.  I'm joining with you in prayer for him.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

CU is gone. He deleted his account.

Seriously? Any reason given?

I guess he could dish it out better than he could take it.

I'm seriously gonna miss that guy...










Nah!  Just kidding.  He can go troll somewhere else and nobody is really going to miss him that much.

I dunno Band Guy, I disagreed with him often, but he certainly put time into his thoughts.

Anyone else notice CU's disagreements really got rolling after the situation with a family member? He posted often here, but it really took a turn after that announcement.

Just gonna pray for him. Not sure what he is going through, but I know a God who does.

I think I missed all of that.  What are you talking about?

Somewhere around the announcement of the great debate, CU posted in a thread that there was a death in the family, I believe it was a parent. He was posting a lot before that, but it seemed he posted a lot more after, with a different tone. Not sure what he was going through, just gonna pray for him.