Is the Lee Roberson brand of IFB officially dead?

[bgwilkinson]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

 

[Norefund]

Just my opinion, of course, but IFB has been dying for a couple of decades if not more. It is now a very fringe movement that is stained badly by its  most famous practitioners.

 

[subllibrm]

I see it as an unwillingness to meet people where they are. The message never changes but methods can, do and should. The IFB model expects the hearer to understand the "lingo" of the church while at the same time refusing to learn the lingo of the world that those people live in.

If you want to save a drowning man from a sewage pond you have to go into the goo to bring him out. Standing on the shore yelling swimming instruction at him through a bullhorn ain't gonna do it.

But "my testimony will be tarnished" you say. To whom? To you? The church? Certainly not the dying man. And definitely not to God!

 

[praise_yeshua]

In my opinion. Lee Roberson was never a big part of the problem. I would call him a moderate in the fundamentalist movement. Yes. He might have been over zealous is what women should wear but that was more to do with the culture of the time and not necessarily anything else.

Not endorsing everything about anyone. Just making the point.

 

[Holy Mole]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

Perhaps.

My understanding of a proper model is that it will be self perpetuating so that one will not leave it and that it will survive indefinitely.

 

[bruinboy]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

It has been successfully argued that OJ Simpson didn't shoot his wife.  Doesn't mean that is true.  Based on the declining attendance at all the other fundy skools, I would say that it would be less than intellectually honest to believe this is just an anomaly. If the fundy model works, maybe you can share a list with us that are financially stable, provide a quality education and have a substantual and growing student body............................... good luck.  Heck, make it easy on yourself, maybe just one of those.   

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

 

[Holy Mole]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

It has been successfully argued that OJ Simpson didn't shoot his wife.  Doesn't mean that is true.  Based on the declining attendance at all the other fundy skools, I would say that it would be less than intellectually honest to believe this is just an anomaly. If the fundy model works, maybe you can share a list with us that are financially stable, provide a quality education and have a substantual and growing student body............................... good luck.  Heck, make it easy on yourself, maybe just one of those. 

Nobody said anything about a Fundy school meeting all the criteria you describe. I cannot speak for the quality of education but I think Crown would be the best example of sticking with the LR model and having a measure of success, at least they did for some time. I can only speak of Crown through reputation.

Concerning the IFB school, as with any business, it can succeed if it meets the need of a particular niche as long as that niche is large enough. The problem is when they leave their niche and go after a larger spectrum of clientele exposing themselves to a larger base of competition as well. The IFB niche has been continually stretching thinner for many reasons despite this the number of "schools" pulling from this base is continuing to grow.

 

[bruinboy]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

Yep. 

 

[Holy Mole]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

Please explain. I was not there but I know those that were and the story I got was the complete opposite. Did it not begin to have trouble when Jennings took over?

 

[Walt]

Someone is going to have to try to define the "Lee Roberson brand"; I've only heard him preach (and sing) once, so I know little of his "brand".

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

Please explain. I was not there but I know those that were and the story I got was the complete opposite. Did it not begin to have trouble when Jennings took over?

Dr Jennings was always under siege from the alumni....two examples they gave that he (Jennings) was a neo-evangelical: he invited Warren Wiersbie to speak at Temple and he (Jennings) spoke at Moody. TTU, in my opinion, was doomed by this mentality. But, that is simply my opinion, but it is shared by many.

 

[subllibrm]

Someone is going to have to try to define the "Lee Roberson brand"; I've only heard him preach (and sing) once, so I know little of his "brand".

They never marketed his line of suits very well otherwise the brand would have stayed strong.

 

[subllibrm]

Dr Jennings was always under siege from the alumni....two examples they gave that he (Jennings) was a neo-evangelical: he invited Warren Wiersbie to speak at Temple and he (Jennings) spoke at Moody. TTU, in my opinion, was doomed by this mentality. But, that is simply my opinion, but it is shared by many.

Wow! Really? In my circles an invite to speak at Moody is considered a major honor. And Warren Wiersbe is oft quoted and highly admired. Those alumni apparently have no idea what they are missing.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Dr Jennings was always under siege from the alumni....two examples they gave that he (Jennings) was a neo-evangelical: he invited Warren Wiersbie to speak at Temple and he (Jennings) spoke at Moody. TTU, in my opinion, was doomed by this mentality. But, that is simply my opinion, but it is shared by many.

Wow! Really? In my circles an invite to speak at Moody is considered a major honor. And Warren Wiersbe is oft quoted and highly admired. Those alumni apparently have no idea what they are missing.

It seems to me that Warren Wiersbe's notes were taught at HAC verbatim and highly acclaimed as almost divine.

 

[Holy Mole]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

Please explain. I was not there but I know those that were and the story I got was the complete opposite. Did it not begin to have trouble when Jennings took over?

Dr Jennings was always under siege from the alumni....two examples they gave that he (Jennings) was a neo-evangelical: he invited Warren Wiersbie to speak at Temple and he (Jennings) spoke at Moody. TTU, in my opinion, was doomed by this mentality. But, that is simply my opinion, but it is shared by many.

Right or wrong, he was leaving the niche(IFB-SWBF) that was created by LR and that LR was quite successful at marketing to. A school like Crown still markets to this crowd and I believe is being successful at it and with it's close proximity may be one reason TTU saw a drop in enrollment....from that group. Opening up to a different mindset or position perhaps gave them a wider pool to draw students from but left them competing with schools already established in that market (Moody, Wheaton, even Liberty).

 

[BALAAM]

Dr Jennings was always under siege from the alumni....two examples they gave that he (Jennings) was a neo-evangelical: he invited Warren Wiersbie to speak at Temple and he (Jennings) spoke at Moody. TTU, in my opinion, was doomed by this mentality. But, that is simply my opinion, but it is shared by many.

Wow! Really? In my circles an invite to speak at Moody is considered a major honor. And Warren Wiersbe is oft quoted and highly admired. Those alumni apparently have no idea what they are missing.

It seems to me that Warren Wiersbe's notes were taught at HAC verbatim and highly acclaimed as almost divine.

His grandson pastors one of the Bethel churches in Hobart/Portage.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Holy Mole:
Right or wrong, he was leaving the niche(IFB-SWBF) that was created by LR and that LR was quite successful at marketing to. A school like Crown still markets to this crowd and I believe is being successful at it and with it's close proximity may be one reason TTU saw a drop in enrollment....from that group. Opening up to a different mindset or position perhaps gave them a wider pool to draw students from but left them competing with schools already established in that market (Moody, Wheaton, even Liberty).

I'm sure your view point was reflected in the TTU alumni who revolted over Jenning's 'direction'. But the other side argued that the demise was taking place long before Dr. Roberson stepped down...and if memory serves me correctly, they even brought Dr. Roberson back for awhile in the early 90's. Temple's alumni base for whatever reason deserted them and never came back....the latest capital campaign, a last ditch effort to survive, netted only $65 K.

Today, most all of the IFB or fundamentalist schools who reached their peak enrollment in the 60's-70's are drastically down in enrollment and many are fighting to simply survive, to thrive isn't an imminent option. And they have taken different path's....some help to the old paths while others tried to blaze different paths, but the results have, for the most part, been similarly disappointing.

I believe some of the decline can be attributed to the 'old path standards', some to the deterioration of the culture and some to a real lack of strong second generation leaders. I believe one reason Liberty has succeeded is because Falwell never had many of those 'standards' (old path people say he was a compromiser), Falwell always wanted a liberal arts, accredited college and his two sons proved to be outstanding leaders in their own right.

 

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

With TTU closing up shop and the church moving out to the Highlands does this indicate the official end of an IFB era?

Is it too late for others to change course before they too go over the precipice?

Did Bill Hybels have it right in giving the customer what he wants?

So what do you think, is the IFB model fatally flawed?

Is the IFB model dead, at least the Lee Roberson model, and what about "three to thrive"?

What could have been done to save it?

My understanding is that TTU and HPBC left the Lee Roberson model many years ago. It could be argued that leaving that model is what lead to it's decline.

I believe their decline was sealed when the alumni base fought Dr Jennings and the change he tried to bring when he followed Dr Roberson.
They got what they wanted but lost what they had...

This. Jennings attempted to move TTU toward becoming a more legitimate academic institution and not a four-year Christian day camp. Bringing in a president who didn't care about academics unless they had a direct tie to ministry and didn't care about gaining regional accreditation for the school relegated TTU to eventual irrelevancy. It is surprising that TTU lasted as long as it did. It probably should have shuttered its doors more than a decade ago.