Is there a role for Pastors in politics?

[Smellin Coffee]

Not sure how I feel about his running.

What's your take on his walking?

Hoping SC will insert a picture reflecting some stereotype to help me decide.  ;D

Ask and ye shall receive!

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]Pastors are members of the body of Christ.  That's all.  No more.  No less.  Pastors have a unique gift.  Some say it's the gift of comforting the flock especially when people are in need.  But it's one gift.  Say it's being a hand in the body of Christ.  Others have other gifts.  Everyone is co-equal in the body of Christ and everyone's function and gift has a place.  The eye has a place.  The big toe has a place.  Nobody is supposed to be the center of corporate worship except Christ. 

When the body of Christ meets in a NT Biblical way, every person has the option of input.  One might choose a song.  Another might teach something, generally extemporaneously, which is more likely to be Spirit-led.  Another might comfort some who need comfort (probably a pastor would do that).  Another might choose a Bible passage and read it, and perhaps even give thoughts on it.  And if the pastor OR ANYONE ELSE had a political opinion he thought was important to express, he would express it.  There would be no question as to whether that was appropriate, because the pastor isn't the focal point of the church.  He has a right to his opinion just like everyone else. 

Now, this is why the church building is wrong for the body of Christ.  In a typical church building, everyone is forced to sit facing front, and it is impolite to chat with the people around you.  The whole purpose of this arrangement is to force people to focus on the pastor and/or choir, etc., and become passive participants in an artificial ceremony.  It destroys any semblance with the NT assembly. 

By the way, why is extemporaneous speaking more likely to be Spirit-led?  Here's an old joke:  A pastor is writing his sermon for the upcoming service.  His daughter says, "How do you know what to write?"  The pastor says, "God tells me."  The daughter says, "Then why do you keep crossing stuff out?" [/quote]

I agree with you on the principles. But you're also ignoring that some people are gifted with teaching. I would expect this person(s) to be the one(s) that is primarily (although not exclusively) teaching. Furthermore, one of the requirements for elders is the ability to teach. (With this being said, I definitely differentiate between teachers, pastors, and preachers.)

 

[Izdaari]

Pastors are citizens, and have every right to run for office. They're probably better qualified than the mob of mostly lawyers that are in office now.

But other than that, I don't go to church to hear about politics, and if I hear too much about it there, I'll leave for a different church.

I don't go to hear about politics either.
But neither do I go to hear some cosmic teaching that has no bearing on real life, so to speak. If moral and Biblical issues are current political issues, I would have no problem teaching, preaching or listening to exposition on those issues.

I would say that many churches, because of your "ill go to a different church" attitude ( no personal offense meant), do stay away from any topic that might be taken as political.

I have no hard line about how much politics in church is too much. But I know when it has been crossed. The PCUSA crossed it, and crossed themselves off my list, by taking a denominational stand in favor of gun control. Many evangelical churches crossed it by opposing WA's SSM law (I don't mind if they preach that it's sinful; what crossed the line was campaigning for legislation).

 

[Castor Muscular]

I agree with you on the principles. But you're also ignoring that some people are gifted with teaching. I would expect this person(s) to be the one(s) that is primarily (although not exclusively) teaching. Furthermore, one of the requirements for elders is the ability to teach. (With this being said, I definitely differentiate between teachers, pastors, and preachers.)

Read it again.  I gave special attention to teaching.  Teaching doesn't necessitate a sermon.  Even sunday school classes are more interactive than a sermon, and that's ALL teaching. 

 

[kaba]

I don't believe a pastor should, from the pulpit, tell the congregation specifically who to vote for or against, but that being said, I believe that scripture has much to say about how we should view current events.  Preaching a biblical world view on topical issues is very appropriate.

Totally agree

 

[rsc2a]

I agree with you on the principles. But you're also ignoring that some people are gifted with teaching. I would expect this person(s) to be the one(s) that is primarily (although not exclusively) teaching. Furthermore, one of the requirements for elders is the ability to teach. (With this being said, I definitely differentiate between teachers, pastors, and preachers.)

Read it again.  I gave special attention to teaching.  Teaching doesn't necessitate a sermon.  Even sunday school classes are more interactive than a sermon, and that's ALL teaching.

Yes, you said:

Another might teach something, generally extemporaneously, which is more likely to be Spirit-led.

It's the underlined portion I have issue with. There is nothing wrong with preparing a lesson (or whatever you want to call it), and it is just like to be "Spirit-led".

I actually think many sermons should function more like small group. I like how Tim Keller handles(d?) it. He has a Sunday sermon and that afternoon has a Q&A session about the morning's sermon.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Not sure how I feel about his running.

What's your take on his walking?

Hoping SC will insert a picture reflecting some stereotype to help me decide.  ;D

Ask and ye shall receive!

Dan, are you 'Hyper-linking' again?
This page is soooo much widerrrrrrrrrrr than others on the thread.
If so, I rescind my request....

 

[PappaBear]

The impetus for this thread was a call I received last week from a Pastor friend who is being encouraged to run the for U.S. Senate in NC next year. I'm going to a luncheon Monday, Lord willing, to get the lay of the land.

Not sure how I feel about his (or any other Pastor) running for elected office.

I grew up hearing "a Baptist preacher would have to step DOWN to become President..."  Coupled with my Baptist views of separation of church and state, I pretty well held to a careful delineation of spiritual and public offices.

However, in recent years, I have been forced to question the conventional wisdom of that statement.  Our churches are suffering today due to a backlash of undue pressures put upon our young people to "step up" into the ministry.  First, not everyone is called into the ministry.  Second, we need some good people with Bible-based morality to serve in every order of society, including politics.  Summations of antagonism against certain occupations have depleted our resource base of active Christians within certain professions.  It is hard to find a good Christian lawyer, or a practicing Christian psychologist.  The deficiency of Christians from politics is no less than any other profession.  We need good moral men in government!

I do not have a senator in mind, but the best school board member I ever knew of was a Baptist Preacher.  One of the best mayors I had a privilege to know was an active Baptist Deacon.  Criticize them as much as you want, but Jerry Falwell played a vital role in presenting Christian principles to his generation, all the while as a serving Baptist Pastor, while Billy Graham influenced many Presidents.  William Jennings Bryan was a well known preacher who ran for President, and I would have gladly voted for Mike Huckabee (again), a Baptist Preacher,  this last time, if he had run.  On a Biblical basis, do we condemn Joseph, Daniel, or the 3 Hebrew Children for their roles in ungodly governments?  Or David and Solomon, used as scripture writers and prophets, for their roles in government?

So, I personally do not think your friend needs to throw the idea out altogether.  But he does need to weigh his choices.  First, is it something he is convinced God wants him to do?  Second, does he have a chance at the office?  I have seen a few who run for president every year or put their names on some ballot or other who already know they couldn't get elected dog-catcher, but think they are making some statement.  The statement they usually wind up making in the minds of the general public is that Christians are ne'er-do-wells or farces.  Thirdly, does he have the moral courage to stand up to great pressures in political office to compromise his principles?  In other words, does he have a backbone?  Lastly, how does his family feel?  This is akin to some who leave the pastorate for the mission field out of a sense of failure.  He needs to make sure that his family and friends, but those in his household especially, do not perceive this as a "job change" to something he might do better at, or they will lose respect for him and both ministry & politics.

Well, them's my off the cuff thoughts.  May the LORD give you better direction, and I hope he is sincere in looking to Christ for direction regarding this.  The LORD knows we need more godly men with some spiritual backbone willing to serve in the leadership of our country so we may have some quiet and peaceable lives. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I don't believe a pastor should, from the pulpit, tell the congregation specifically who to vote for or against, but that being said, I believe that scripture has much to say about how we should view current events.  Preaching a biblical world view on topical issues is very appropriate.

I would have agreed with you 15 years ago. However, were I in the pulpit now, I would have been comfortable telling my congregation that a vote for Obama is a vote for evil.

Would a vote for Romney have been a vote for the righteousness of Christ?  McCain?

Do you think a political position for abortion rights is a vote for righteousness?
Do you think a Christian should leave their principles at the door of the voting booth?

Again, it's politics, not theology or ecclesiology.
It's not a vote for Biblical righteousness...but shouldn't it be a vote on Biblical principle, when its applicable?

 

[christundivided]

Pastors are citizens, and have every right to run for office. They're probably better qualified than the mob of mostly lawyers that are in office now.

But other than that, I don't go to church to hear about politics, and if I hear too much about it there, I'll leave for a different church.

I don't go to hear about politics either.
But neither do I go to hear some cosmic teaching that has no bearing on real life, so to speak. If moral and Biblical issues are current political issues, I would have no problem teaching, preaching or listening to exposition on those issues.

I would say that many churches, because of your "ill go to a different church" attitude ( no personal offense meant), do stay away from any topic that might be taken as political.

I have no hard line about how much politics in church is too much. But I know when it has been crossed. The PCUSA crossed it, and crossed themselves off my list, by taking a denominational stand in favor of gun control. Many evangelical churches crossed it by opposing WA's SSM law (I don't mind if they preach that it's sinful; what crossed the line was campaigning for legislation).

You really are dysfunctional. You expect someone to ignore their own convictions and vote for something they consider "sin"???? You're really dysfunctional. Paul talked about people like you when he said... "those who oppose themselves".

The true of the matter is.... You simply believe SSM isn't sinful. Don't hide from it. Be bold as a lion. Have you ever read that phrase before? Where did you read it?

 

[christundivided]

I don't believe a pastor should, from the pulpit, tell the congregation specifically who to vote for or against, but that being said, I believe that scripture has much to say about how we should view current events.  Preaching a biblical world view on topical issues is very appropriate.

I would have agreed with you 15 years ago. However, were I in the pulpit now, I would have been comfortable telling my congregation that a vote for Obama is a vote for evil.

Would a vote for Romney have been a vote for the righteousness of Christ?  McCain?

I certainly don't think so. Rather, I believe my vote for Gary Johnson on the Libertarian Party ticket was the most righteous vote I could have cast.

Gary Johnson is a idiot.

A vote is always a choice between greater evils.

Politics is about compromise. Most preachers don't know where to compromise and where not to compromise.

 

[BandGuy]

I don't believe a pastor should, from the pulpit, tell the congregation specifically who to vote for or against, but that being said, I believe that scripture has much to say about how we should view current events.  Preaching a biblical world view on topical issues is very appropriate.

I would have agreed with you 15 years ago. However, were I in the pulpit now, I would have been comfortable telling my congregation that a vote for Obama is a vote for evil.

Would a vote for Romney have been a vote for the righteousness of Christ?  McCain?

Do you think a political position for abortion rights is a vote for righteousness?
Do you think a Christian should leave their principles at the door of the voting booth?

Again, it's politics, not theology or ecclesiology.
It's not a vote for Biblical righteousness...but shouldn't it be a vote on Biblical principle, when its applicable?

So, Biblical righteousness is separate from Biblical Principles?  Interesting thought you have there.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I don't believe a pastor should, from the pulpit, tell the congregation specifically who to vote for or against, but that being said, I believe that scripture has much to say about how we should view current events.  Preaching a biblical world view on topical issues is very appropriate.

I would have agreed with you 15 years ago. However, were I in the pulpit now, I would have been comfortable telling my congregation that a vote for Obama is a vote for evil.

Would a vote for Romney have been a vote for the righteousness of Christ?  McCain?

Do you think a political position for abortion rights is a vote for righteousness?
Do you think a Christian should leave their principles at the door of the voting booth?

Again, it's politics, not theology or ecclesiology.
It's not a vote for Biblical righteousness...but shouldn't it be a vote on Biblical principle, when its applicable?

So, Biblical righteousness is separate from Biblical Principles?  Interesting thought you have there.

Biblical righteousness is based on Biblical principles. No argument from me there.
I mean that I'm under no illusion that the political process is going to bring about Biblical righteousness or a Theocracy.
But I base my vote on these principles whenever possible.

Don't you?

 

[PappaBear]

You really are dysfunctional. ... You're really dysfunctional. Paul talked about people like you when he said... "those who oppose themselves".

The true of the matter is.... You simply believe SSM isn't sinful.

You are getting a little bit personal, bub.  Izdaari is a part of this online community, and you have no right to be so demeaning to her.  You ought to step away from the computer for a little bit, take some breaths, do some yoga, or something to straighten your attitude.  But summary judgments of her like that are a bit too much.  You may disagree with her statements, that is appropriate.  But personal attack like that is unjustified and unacceptable, in my opinion.  You have made at least as many dysfunctional statements around here as anyone else.  Lighten up.
(Know it prolly won't happen, but an apology would be appropriate in my opinion.)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The current role for a pastor is unbiblical.  If pastors were just mere members of the body of Christ, as they should be, then whether or not they have political opinions wouldn't matter.

You keep coming back to this.
Instead of talking at you/ each other, give me an overview of what you feel the Biblical role of Pastor should be....THEN I'll talk at and over you.

Pastors are members of the body of Christ.  That's all.  No more.  No less.  Pastors have a unique gift.  Some say it's the gift of comforting the flock especially when people are in need.  But it's one gift.  Say it's being a hand in the body of Christ.  Others have other gifts.  Everyone is co-equal in the body of Christ and everyone's function and gift has a place.  The eye has a place.  The big toe has a place.  Nobody is supposed to be the center of corporate worship except Christ. 

When the body of Christ meets in a NT Biblical way, every person has the option of input.  One might choose a song.  Another might teach something, generally extemporaneously, which is more likely to be Spirit-led.  Another might comfort some who need comfort (probably a pastor would do that).  Another might choose a Bible passage and read it, and perhaps even give thoughts on it.  And if the pastor OR ANYONE ELSE had a political opinion he thought was important to express, he would express it.  There would be no question as to whether that was appropriate, because the pastor isn't the focal point of the church.  He has a right to his opinion just like everyone else. 

Now, this is why the church building is wrong for the body of Christ.  In a typical church building, everyone is forced to sit facing front, and it is impolite to chat with the people around you.  The whole purpose of this arrangement is to force people to focus on the pastor and/or choir, etc., and become passive participants in an artificial ceremony.  It destroys any semblance with the NT assembly. 

By the way, why is extemporaneous speaking more likely to be Spirit-led?  Here's an old joke:  A pastor is writing his sermon for the upcoming service.  His daughter says, "How do you know what to write?"  The pastor says, "God tells me."  The daughter says, "Then why do you keep crossing stuff out?"

What about Scripture admonitions to, for and about Pastors, Bishops, Elders.....?

 

[Castor Muscular]

What about Scripture admonitions to, for and about Pastors, Bishops, Elders.....?

What about them?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Preach the gospel, leave politics out, for the gospel is vastly more important and will cover the issues of the heart which should lead a person to make the right voting choices.

 

[christundivided]

You really are dysfunctional. ... You're really dysfunctional. Paul talked about people like you when he said... "those who oppose themselves".

The true of the matter is.... You simply believe SSM isn't sinful.

You are getting a little bit personal, bub.  Izdaari is a part of this online community, and you have no right to be so demeaning to her.  You ought to step away from the computer for a little bit, take some breaths, do some yoga, or something to straighten your attitude.  But summary judgments of her like that are a bit too much.  You may disagree with her statements, that is appropriate.  But personal attack like that is unjustified and unacceptable, in my opinion.  You have made at least as many dysfunctional statements around here as anyone else.  Lighten up.
(Know it prolly won't happen, but an apology would be appropriate in my opinion.)

You simply don't like me. I don't expect anything less from you. I don't care whether you like me or not. What I said was true. Accept or reject it. Doesn't matter to me. I'll take a baby aspirin and worry about it.

You two are total opposites. You have nothing in common. I'd dare say.... you'll sooner or later consider her a heretic. At least I'm not stupid enough to throw that charge around. She is dysfunctional in her attempts to mix her core libertarian beliefs with her theology. She'll say..... she doesn't... but its impossible to separate the two. Her theology is libertarianism.

 

[christundivided]

Preach the gospel, leave politics out, for the gospel is vastly more important and will cover the issues of the heart which should lead a person to make the right voting choices.

I agree. I don't mind politics in the pulpit and everyone should be free to say whatever is on their heart from the pulpit. However, I think its near impossible to be a pastor and politician at the same time. They are two totally different worlds. One is all about compromise (or at least it should be) and the other demands the lack of compromise.

 

[rsc2a]

Preach the gospel, leave politics out, for the gospel is vastly more important and will cover the issues of the heart which should lead a person to make the right voting choices.

Proclaiming the gospel is inherently political.