It's Not Just the IFB

[Twisted]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-of-america-considers-bankruptcy-filing-amid-sex-abuse-lawsuits-11544649657

 

[AnkleBone]

But it is the IFB, and that matters to the IFB.

 

[Ransom]

Who said it was "just" the IFB?

This looks like a deflection. Pay no attention to the pervert behind the pulpit!

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Who said it was "just" the IFB?

This looks like a deflection. Pay no attention to the pervert behind the pulpit!

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

 

[Am80]

Who said it was "just" the IFB?

This looks like a deflection. Pay no attention to the pervert behind the pulpit!

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

I've read expos?s on sexual abuse on college campuses, Hollywood, the Catholic church, the Boy Scouts, etc. Why should an expos? on abuse in IFB ministries be different?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Who said it was "just" the IFB?

This looks like a deflection. Pay no attention to the pervert behind the pulpit!

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

I've read expos?s on sexual abuse on college campuses, Hollywood, the Catholic church, the Boy Scouts, etc. Why should an expos? on abuse in IFB ministries be different?

All of the organizations you named above had wide-spread abuse occurring within its ranks. In comparison to the number of IFB churches, a very small percentage of its leadership have been involved in anything immoral. Yes, every instance is deplorable and needs to be prosecuted, but the degree of incident is minuscule compared to other organizations.  Please do not think I am attempting to minimize the damage or make any excuses whatsoever, quite the opposite. I would be in favor of swift and severe punishment for all sexual predators. 

Had they broadened the investigation to include ALL Baptist churches or ALL Protestant churches, or even ALL churches, the degree of occurrence would have been significant. This seems like targeting to me.

 

[Am80]

Who said it was "just" the IFB?

This looks like a deflection. Pay no attention to the pervert behind the pulpit!

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

I've read expos?s on sexual abuse on college campuses, Hollywood, the Catholic church, the Boy Scouts, etc. Why should an expos? on abuse in IFB ministries be different?

All of the organizations you named above had wide-spread abuse occurring within its ranks. In comparison to the number of IFB churches, a very small percentage of its leadership have been involved in anything immoral. Yes, every instance is deplorable and needs to be prosecuted, but the degree of incident is minuscule compared to other organizations.  Please do not think I am attempting to minimize the damage or make any excuses whatsoever, quite the opposite. I would be in favor of swift and severe punishment for all sexual predators. 

Had they broadened the investigation to include ALL Baptist churches or ALL Protestant churches, or even ALL churches, the degree of occurrence would have been significant. This seems like targeting to me.

I disagree. I mean, I guess they could have lumped us in with the Southern Baptists, but we ourselves set ourselves apart and refuse the title of Protestant, or even Evangelical. Most of our churches refuse to associate with other types of believers/churches. We've put ourselves in a very specific box, and I think that giving us our own limelight makes sense. We've kind of asked for it.

 

[AnkleBone]

You always know a Fundamentalist because when talks comes up about children being ,molested in Fundamentalist churches, he will immediately find ways to defend Fundamentalism instead of the children

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The IFB has long had a problem within its ranks.  The major issue here is that many of the scandals are not in small, unknown churches, but in the institutions that are commonly thought of as the leadership of the movement.  When the issue of shuffling people from one ministry to another is presented, it sounds very similar to the Catholic church issue a few years back.  It is a news story and someone took some time to listen to people, do some research and present their findings.

For those of us who grew up in the heart of the movement, or have long been associated with the movement, we some some errors in the article.  The article was written with a bit of persuasion in it, but all news articles take this tone - "Can you believe this?"  That is what gets clicks and that is what makes money.  In the end, the writer is trying to get juicy stuff and present it in a way that most builds intrigue so that she will make more money.  That is her job and I don't discredit her for doing it.  It is the errors in the article and some of the intended shock for clicks that some people are bothered by.

I think it is worth pointing out that this issue is not just in the IFB, just like it is not just in Hollywood or the SBC or the Catholics or the Methodists or the business world, or.......  This crime is an epidemic that has swept across every portion of our society.  Is it jsut in teh past few years that this crime has become so prevalent?  Or, has this been going on for decades and people are just now beginning to speak out?  I believe the latter of these two questions.  I think our society has become more understanding of the crime and able to recognize it.  I believe our society is discovering new policies to handle these issues and ways to report them where the victim will be heard.  I believe it is this change in society that is bringing up all of these stories.

 

[AnkleBone]

, but all news articles take this tone - "Can you believe this?"  That is what gets clicks and that is what makes money.  I

Or maybe the tone is "Can you believe this?" because it is actually so shocking that over 400 cases have occurred and the IFB continues to do nothing about it. If you want to get it down to individuals, fine. No IFB church and no IFB pastor has done anything about it. They don't preach about it. They don't name or discipline or call down wrath on any pastor who commits the sin or any person who shelters such a pastor. That is shocking. Even the Catholics have done more than nothing.

I think it is worth pointing out that this issue is not just in the IFB,

But that is the point. It IS in the IFB. In a big, big way. The IFB is one of the worst offenders among religious groups, for one thing. Other churches institute safeguards. The IFB does not. Other churches have procedures in place to remove molesters from church office forever. The IFB does not.

But apart from that,  as I posted elsewhere, this proves that the entire IFB is just hokum. The dress code is useless, the daily devotions are useless, baptism by immersion is useless, all the soul winning is useless, using only the KJV is useless. None of the IFB culture matters in terms of holiness. In the end, you're just Wendell Evans driving away from a parking lot, failing to stop a sexual predator and being promoted to president of a college as a reward.  A coward and a sycophant choosing the carnal path to satisfaction instead of facing the requirement to suffer in the name of Christ.

There  was a Paul, who suffered beatings, imprisonment, and death, and there really was a Peter, who was also martyred, but they didn't achieve what they achieved by living the IFB way. None of it preserves a soul from sin. None of it is effective to righteousness. 412 cases of sexual abuse prove that beyond a doubt. Now this time, read the Bible for what it actually SAYS, and you'll come up with a religion very different from the prideful and dead legalism of the IFB,

But OK, just as you pointed out, there is no shred of difference between the IFB and any other depraved and lost soul. And the IFB has certainly proved that. So is that bad? Yes! They are the ones who declared themselves holy and different. And you're right. They lied. They lie all the time. They're not holy and they're not different.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

, but all news articles take this tone - "Can you believe this?"  That is what gets clicks and that is what makes money.  I

Or maybe the tone is "Can you believe this?" because it is actually so shocking that over 400 cases have occurred and the IFB continues to do nothing about it. If you want to get it down to individuals, fine. No IFB church and no IFB pastor has done anything about it. They don't preach about it. They don't name or discipline or call down wrath on any pastor who commits the sin or any person who shelters such a pastor. That is shocking. Even the Catholics have done more than nothing.

I think it is worth pointing out that this issue is not just in the IFB,

But that is the point. The IFB is one of the worst offenders among religious groups, for one thing. But apart from that,  as I posted elsewhere, this proves that the entire IFB is just hokum. The dress code is useless, the daily devotions are useless, baptism by immersion is useless, all the soul winning is useless, using only the KJV is useless. None of the IFB culture matters in terms of holiness. In the end, you're just Wendell Evans driving away from a parking lot, failing to stop a sexual predator and being promoted to president of a college as a reward.  A coward and a sycophant choosing the carnal path to satisfaction instead of facing the requirement to suffer in the name of Christ.

There  was a Paul, who suffered beatings, imprisonment, and death, and there really was a Peter, who was also martyred, but they didn't achieve what they achieved by living the IFB way. None of it preserves a soul from sin. None of it is effective to righteousness. 412 cases of sexual abuse prove that beyond a doubt. Now this time, read the Bible for what it actually SAYS, and you'll come up with a religion very different from the prideful and dead legalism of the IFB,

But OK, just as you pointed out, there is no shred of difference between the IFB and any other depraved and lost soul. And the IFB has certainly proved that. So is that bad? Yes! They are the ones who declared themselves holy and different. And you're right. They lied. They lie all the time. They're not holy and they're not different.

You need to check your facts.  You are absolutely wrong.  Even the writer of the article stated that she has received many calls from IFB pastors who are thanking her for bringing this up because there needs to be a change in the culture of the IFB movement.  You are just simply wrong.  It seems you have so much anger that you cannot see the facts.

Most of the IFB is changing.  Most of these reported instances happened long ago.  It is not a place where sexual predators are heralded as heroes.  When you begin to claim that baptism and a relationship with God are pointless, you are revealing much about yourself. 

 

[AnkleBone]

The IFB has been claiming it is changing for the last 20 years. Show me where it has instituted accountability of its elders.

Yes, Sarah Smith, who doesn't recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing is swayed by Shelton Smith and Paul CHappell, not knowing that they have actively covered up abuse cases.

Just show my where they have changed in approaching child safety, issues of abuse, and accountability of pastors. Just show me one sermons where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

 

[Twisted]

Just show me one sermon where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

IFB says, "When the Catholics preach one, we'll preach one!"

 

[Ransom]

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

"These other guys are just as bad" isn't much of an answer, either.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The IFB has been claiming it is changing for the last 20 years. Show me where it has instituted accountability of its elders.

Yes, Sarah Smith, who doesn't recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing is swayed by Shelton Smith and Paul CHappell, not knowing that they have actively covered up abuse cases.

Just show my where they have changed in approaching child safety, issues of abuse, and accountability of pastors. Just show me one sermons where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

Check even the threads in this forum to find such links.  Your head is in the sand.

 

[AnkleBone]

Just show me one sermon where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

IFB says, "When the Catholics preach one, we'll preach one!"

Another sign of being exactly like the Catholic Church. In fact, it's an admission that it is exactly liek the Catholic Church.

 

[AnkleBone]

I don't think it is a deflection as much as it is pointing out that the IFB is being targeted in these reports when the expos? could have been much more broad.

"These other guys are just as bad" isn't much of an answer, either.

Indeed not. It is an acknowledgement of being just another product of this carnal world.

 

[AnkleBone]

The IFB has been claiming it is changing for the last 20 years. Show me where it has instituted accountability of its elders.

Yes, Sarah Smith, who doesn't recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing is swayed by Shelton Smith and Paul CHappell, not knowing that they have actively covered up abuse cases.

Just show my where they have changed in approaching child safety, issues of abuse, and accountability of pastors. Just show me one sermons where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

Check even the threads in this forum to find such links.  Your head is in the sand.

There is not one single sermon presented in this this forum or on this site on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man.

 

[Saved by Grace]

The IFB has been claiming it is changing for the last 20 years. Show me where it has instituted accountability of its elders.

Yes, Sarah Smith, who doesn't recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing is swayed by Shelton Smith and Paul CHappell, not knowing that they have actively covered up abuse cases.

Just show my where they have changed in approaching child safety, issues of abuse, and accountability of pastors. Just show me one sermons where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

You will find them but they are not in the majority and are often criticized by their IFB brethren.

side note i had no idea Paul Chappel has his own cover up :/ . Not much different that Vineyard or Hyles after all

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The IFB has been claiming it is changing for the last 20 years. Show me where it has instituted accountability of its elders.

Yes, Sarah Smith, who doesn't recognize the wolves in sheep's clothing is swayed by Shelton Smith and Paul CHappell, not knowing that they have actively covered up abuse cases.

Just show my where they have changed in approaching child safety, issues of abuse, and accountability of pastors. Just show me one sermons where any IFB pastor has preached on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man. One sermon. That's all I ask. You won't find one.

Check even the threads in this forum to find such links.  Your head is in the sand.

There is not one single sermon presented in this this forum or on this site on expelling an elder who has fallen into sin or on defending a child or wife from an abusive man.

You acknowledge that some folks are speaking out against this sin, but then proclaim that it is not enough and then proclaim no one is speaking out.  Check the Giovanelli threads.  Links to youtubes bringing light to this sin.  The IFB is changing.  Society is changing.  We as a culture are learning how to better help the victims of these sins.