Jack was right!

[Vince Massi]

When I was a student at HAC, Brother Hyles told us that if we were failing in a ministry, find someone who is succeeding and ask him for advice. That advice has served me well for decades.

About eight years ago, our pastor took over a wrecked-up Assemblies of God church with about a dozen people. God used him and others to get it up into the eighties (We had 94 this week).  The entire district has about twenty other churches, all of them small and struggling, with pastors who sacrifice financially to serve God. We as a church have helped start three other AOG churches, two of which have folded. Rising through the ranks as a district leader, our Godly pastor has tried, with little success, to build-up these other churches.

This morning I told him about a live web conference for church planters. Sponsored by some Bible churches (Independent Baptist churches that won't admit it), it is designed for church planters who can't afford to go to conferences. The speakers are men who have started churches that are now large.

But it's not charismatic, the AOG has its own conferences here every two months, and he doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

 

[Twisted]

I would select "Yes - free donuts provided" but that wasn't a choice.

 

[Fresh Air]

One of Bro. Hyles' more egregious (and sadly often unrecognized) errors was his pragmatism.

It wasn't a strength. It was a weakness. And it's absolutely killing us in this generation.

 

[Walt]

One of Bro. Hyles' more egregious (and sadly often unrecognized) errors was his pragmatism.

It wasn't a strength. It was a weakness. And it's absolutely killing us in this generation.

I whole-heartedly agree that pragmatism is "killing us"; it was undoubtedly promoted by Jack Hyles, but it was there before him.

 

[Gunlover]

ok, I had to chime in on this one! This is a topic that "gets my goat."  This could probably start a new thread, but some observations have to me made.
1. What constitutes a "failing" ministry? I am SO SICK of the numbers telling of a "successful" ministry.  Is there no other ruler by which to gauge? I know of too many "successful" pastors that have lost marriages, families, and freedom....just sayin 
2. So a video conference will answer all church problems? LOL! I often wonder how many leave a conference discouraged and wondering how much of the propaganda is actually true.
3. I have had people come to me shortly after I planted a church to ask me what my vision or plan was.....typically they have been spectators in church and want the church to grow into a monster so they can boast about what they did to get it there.
4. I want to be a pastor who gets up every Sunday and Wednesday with the joy of the Lord knowing I have done what God has led me to do and the results are up to Him.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

What about in other countries?

There are villages around the world where church leadership has absolutely no training whatsoever and there are ministries that send people over to train pastors in small classroom-size meetings (conferences), teaching them how to interpret the Bible and lead.

Sometimes it isn't about growing numerically, but rather educating church leadership.

For the US, I'm sure many are in it for the $$$ or power or a platform with which to brag showcase.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Wonderful account of a ministry, but at the same time, after a few sentences I immediately thought about Ten Shekels and a Shirt. Totally riveting.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10180222445

 

[Bruh]

If Noah lived today he would be a complete failure to these people.

 

[sword]

One of Bro. Hyles' more egregious (and sadly often unrecognized) errors was his pragmatism.
It wasn't a strength. It was a weakness. And it's absolutely killing us in this generation.

I whole-heartedly agree that pragmatism is "killing us"; it was undoubtedly promoted by Jack Hyles, but it was there before him.

Just because someone is showing results, and has some degree of success, does not always mean their methods are moral, ethical, scriptural, and correct.

On the other hand to show zero progress or success may be an indicator your methods are not working. Some pastors & their staff sit around and collect a paycheck while their church dies. These same pastors exclaim it's not about the numbers. We're waiting for God to bless and they do nothing. If you have 5, 10 or even more employees depending on a paycheck then numbers do matter. 

Based on the biblical record Noah was right on schedule, with the job God gave him, so I call that a success. May we all be about Gods will, for our lives & worry less about distractions.

 

[Walt]

Wonderful account of a ministry, but at the same time, after a few sentences I immediately thought about Ten Shekels and a Shirt. Totally riveting.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10180222445

Yes, a fantastic message!