Jesus ain?t worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes

[Tim]

I?m pretty sure that Jesus ain?t worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes
Or if you wear a golden cross around your neck
What about loving your neighbor and giving to the poor
I just want to love like that and nothing more

RHETT WALKER BAND - "The Mystery"

What are your thoughts about the chorus above?

I find the line "Jesus ain?t worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes" a stab at what many call "legalistic" Christians. But, are they honestly legalistic? Or, are they just following their heart regarding a call to Holiness?

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:15-16

My home Church is changed slowly from what is labeled "legalistic" to more like the second part of the chorus. "What about loving your neighbor and giving to the poor. I just want to love like that and nothing more."

It seems like in Christianity their is a falling away from the standards once held universal, and a moving toward a more social approach all linked to what Jesus calls the most important commandments. But, did he say the other things should be ignored?

Do you see a change within the Church? Seems like many are putting good standards aside for fear of being labeled "legalistic" ...

Personally, I think Jesus is worried about tattoos and cigarettes. After all - the greatest commandment is to Love the Lord your God with all your HEART, SOUL and MIND. Maybe not so worried about the tattoos on the sinner about to see his need for Christ, but worried about the child of God who says tattoos and cigarettes are okay under grace.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:1

Of course not!

Naturally - members of this forum and others beyond this forum will argue that tattoos and cigarettes are not sin for the believer. But, at what point do we start taking serious the cleansing of this temple? (1 Corinthians 3:16)

We have people encouraging watching a rated R movie with nudity! I can hardly believe it! And I think it goes back to a simple turning away from standards for moral living to a standard of moral caring.

I think God wants both.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Antinomianism.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside.

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

The problem with your analysis is that you assume smoking and tattoos are evil. 

1.  Tattoos were forbidden when God was instructing the Israelites to LOOK separate.  Trimming your beard was also forbidden for the same reason.  So if tattoos are evil, so is trimming your beard.  So if you avoid tattoos because of the above verses, you must never trim your beard, either, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

2.  The Bible says nothing about smoking, and there isn't even a verse you can apply to smoking. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

Ah... you've traded "legalism" for "back door legalism".

I stopped smoking because of my health. I haven't got a tatoo because I don't want one. If something happens to my wife or kids..... I might just get a tribute tatoo..... I'm pretty sure dust doesn't hold ink....

It amazes when those who claim to be free...... just turn right and around and decide to be judges of God's own children.

You're not free....

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside.

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

The problem with your analysis is that you assume smoking and tattoos are evil. 

1.  Tattoos were forbidden when God was instructing the Israelites to LOOK separate.  Trimming your beard was also forbidden for the same reason.  So if tattoos are evil, so is trimming your beard.  So if you avoid tattoos because of the above verses, you must never trim your beard, either, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

2.  The Bible says nothing about smoking, and there isn't even a verse you can apply to smoking.

You assume smoking and tattoos are good.

I link smoking and tattoos with rebellion. The witness of Jesus Christ was not of rebellion, but peace.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8

Native Americans never linked "smoking" to rebellion. It was a part of their culture. So are tattoos to some cultures.

Again. You're not free. You're bound by your own fleshly desire to say....IF something is wrong for you.... it must be wrong for everyone.

I'd like to see you post one verse that ties smoking and tattoos to rebellion. So far..... you've only "READING" that into the verses you've posted.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside.

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

The problem with your analysis is that you assume smoking and tattoos are evil. 

1.  Tattoos were forbidden when God was instructing the Israelites to LOOK separate.  Trimming your beard was also forbidden for the same reason.  So if tattoos are evil, so is trimming your beard.  So if you avoid tattoos because of the above verses, you must never trim your beard, either, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

2.  The Bible says nothing about smoking, and there isn't even a verse you can apply to smoking.

You assume smoking and tattoos are good.

I link smoking and tattoos with rebellion. The witness of Jesus Christ was not of rebellion, but peace.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8

I assume no such thing.  I didn't say they were good.  They simply aren't sins. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

Ah... you've traded "legalism" for "back door legalism".

I stopped smoking because of my health. I haven't got a tatoo because I don't want one. If something happens to my wife or kids..... I might just get a tribute tatoo..... I'm pretty sure dust doesn't hold ink....

It amazes when those who claim to be free...... just turn right and around and decide to be judges of God's own children.

You're not free....

Is freedom flaunting the liberty to watch rated R movies with nudity?

In Christ we have liberty - but we also have a call to holy living. That call demands standards that should be respected.

Legalism will demand the Christian stop smoking. They guilt and demand and say "you are not saved since you smoke" .... and I am against that. But. In LOVE we approach, share our conviction, and let the Spirit of God work.

Many bring up gluttony at this point. They are right - it also is wrong and should be cautioned against as well.

Liberty isn't about "doing as you please" as so many seem to advocate.

I watched the movie. I regretted it and said I didn't recommend it to anyone. I never made it about liberty.

However, "liberty" is doing what you please and only caring with God has to say about it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

In Christ we have liberty - but we also have a call to holy living. That call demands standards that should be respected.

Standards defined by YOU.  And people like ALAYMAN.  Sorry, I don't answer to you or ALAYMAN or any other Pharisee. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside.

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

The problem with your analysis is that you assume smoking and tattoos are evil. 

1.  Tattoos were forbidden when God was instructing the Israelites to LOOK separate.  Trimming your beard was also forbidden for the same reason.  So if tattoos are evil, so is trimming your beard.  So if you avoid tattoos because of the above verses, you must never trim your beard, either, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

2.  The Bible says nothing about smoking, and there isn't even a verse you can apply to smoking.

You assume smoking and tattoos are good.

I link smoking and tattoos with rebellion. The witness of Jesus Christ was not of rebellion, but peace.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8

I assume no such thing.  I didn't say they were good.  They simply aren't sins.

If you agree they are not good then why defend their presence?

Loving your neighbor should include warning them of danger - EVIL!

Funny.... Driving a car isn't often "good for you". Can't say I want people to stop it.

 

[ALAYMAN]

However, "liberty" is doing what you please and only caring with God has to say about it.

This is demonstrably false per Scriptural injunction, "stumbling blocks" for instance.  We are to care about what our brothers think of our behavior.  Ultimately, per our conscience before God I would agree with you, but "not caring what anybody else thinks" ain't right.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I agree that Jesus "ain?t" worried ?bout tattoos and cigarettes. 

Pharisees care about the outside.  Jesus cares about the inside.

It is the inside that directs what the outside does. Jesus sees the very source of our evil actions. He sees the Christian smoking and sees the heart were rebellion and disregard for the life given reside. I believe one might smoke out of ignorance - but many many people have testified to the working of the Holy Spirit to stop smoking. The Lord has changed their heart and the outward man has changed as well.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
Matthew 15:19a

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:11

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
1 Corinthians 6:19

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:21

The problem with your analysis is that you assume smoking and tattoos are evil. 

1.  Tattoos were forbidden when God was instructing the Israelites to LOOK separate.  Trimming your beard was also forbidden for the same reason.  So if tattoos are evil, so is trimming your beard.  So if you avoid tattoos because of the above verses, you must never trim your beard, either, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

2.  The Bible says nothing about smoking, and there isn't even a verse you can apply to smoking.

You assume smoking and tattoos are good.

I link smoking and tattoos with rebellion. The witness of Jesus Christ was not of rebellion, but peace.

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8

I assume no such thing.  I didn't say they were good.  They simply aren't sins.

If you agree they are not good then why defend their presence?

Loving your neighbor should include warning them of danger - EVIL!

Tattoos and smoking are benign.  They are neither good nor evil. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

However, "liberty" is doing what you please and only caring with God has to say about it.

This is demonstrably false per Scriptural injunction, "stumbling blocks" for instance.  We are to care about what our brothers think of our behavior.  Ultimately, per our conscience before God I would agree with you, but "not caring what anybody else thinks" ain't right.

I've said this time and time again....

If I knew what I was doing was affecting a young convert.... I might change.

However, I'll not change for a 60 year old baby who refuses to grow up.

Either way, I stand by what I said. Liberty is about being free from man's standards. You're not going to throw the rope of "think of the babies" around my neck.

People need to grow up. I taught and continue to teach my children that not everyone is like them and THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE....

 

[ALAYMAN]

Tattoos and smoking are benign.  They are neither good nor evil. -- 1st Tomato chapter 3 verse 17.

 

[ALAYMAN]

People need to grow up. I taught and continue to teach my children that not everyone is like them and THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE....

That's all fine and good, but Paul didn't add that caveat.  And for the record, I was merely pointing out the unbiblical nature of saying that God is the only consideration.  He is the ultimate AND over-ruling consideration, but not the ONLY consideration for our behavior.

 

[praise_yeshua]

People need to grow up. I taught and continue to teach my children that not everyone is like them and THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE....

That's all fine and good, but Paul didn't add that caveat.  And for the record, I was merely pointing out the unbiblical nature of saying that God is the only consideration.  He is the ultimate AND over-ruling consideration, but not the ONLY consideration for our behavior.

He is definitely the FIRST, and OFTEN the ONLY. I have it in the high 99 percentile. If you care about what He wants..... then what else matters?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

In Christ we have liberty - but we also have a call to holy living. That call demands standards that should be respected.

Standards defined by YOU.  And people like ALAYMAN.  Sorry, I don't answer to you or ALAYMAN or any other Pharisee.

So you would rather go against Galatians 5:19-21 and quarrel with the brethren over standards rooted in a love for Christ? Again. I am not speaking of "do or die" standards, but standards rooted in a pure love for Christ to overcome evil with good and offer reasonable service to the one who DIED for us.

If my devotion to Christ reveals that smoking is bad ... should I just keep this to myself? Even the world teaches smoking is unhealthy. Even the world have laws and rules around smoking. And yet, it seems like the desire of some Christians is to take this unhealthy thing and say, "do as you please, you are free". I don't agree. I think it is important to take a stand, share that stand, teach that stand, and encourage that stand.

Now. If someone keeps smoking (as some of my Christian friends do) we shouldn't force our convictions. Most of my friends know it isn't healthy. And yes, I think it is a horrible testimony for a believer to smoke. I think God will bring all who smoke to see it isn't wise. But. I am not the Holy Spirit - I am Tim and I myself have my own faults that  need help.

Gal 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Can you please point out where it talks about tattoos and smoking in these verses in Galatians?

Are you talking about dissensions?  You're the one who started the dissent by starting this thread attacking people who smoke or get tattoos.  If you don't want dissent about these things, then shut up about them. 

Smoking IS unhealthy for most people.  But unhealthy does not equate to evil or sin.  It's unhealthy to fail to wash your hands before you eat, but Jesus had something to say about that.  You should read it sometime.

 

[ALAYMAN]

People need to grow up. I taught and continue to teach my children that not everyone is like them and THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE....

That's all fine and good, but Paul didn't add that caveat.  And for the record, I was merely pointing out the unbiblical nature of saying that God is the only consideration.  He is the ultimate AND over-ruling consideration, but not the ONLY consideration for our behavior.

He is definitely the FIRST, and OFTEN the ONLY. I have it in the high 99 percentile. If you care about what He wants..... then what else matters?

Because I do care about what He wants, as revealed in His word, I care about not offending my brethren.

 

[praise_yeshua]

People need to grow up. I taught and continue to teach my children that not everyone is like them and THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE....

That's all fine and good, but Paul didn't add that caveat.  And for the record, I was merely pointing out the unbiblical nature of saying that God is the only consideration.  He is the ultimate AND over-ruling consideration, but not the ONLY consideration for our behavior.

He is definitely the FIRST, and OFTEN the ONLY. I have it in the high 99 percentile. If you care about what He wants..... then what else matters?

Because I do care about what He wants, as revealed in His word, I care about not offending my brethren.

Yeah... You've offended me more than once. I have you as well. We're not children. I still love you.

Jesus said "offenses must needs come". A little study of those words might help you. It does us good to be offended. It causes us to reconsider our position.... Well... it SHOULD.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So since it is unhealthy to walk down the street without 100% assurance I won't fall and die I should excuse all things in life as "acceptable" and just let people fall into greater and greater ruin all around me?

I think you forgot to take your meds today.