Jim Vineyard Scare Tatics

T

TruthBearer

Guest
""THE CHURCH belongs to the LORD JESUS CHRIST. I would never want to do "anything" dis-loyal to him, or to his church."

A Christian "..that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not." [Psalm 15:4], will never do anything to hurt the church where his membership lies.

Christians who are "looking out for themselves" won’t worry in the least about their actions as they leave a church. I have preached for years "YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF BY THE WAY YOU LEAVE."

Joe Consford tells the story of the pastor who pastored Central Baptist in Center, Texas before Brother Dodson came. One of the great missionary Bob Hughes relatives got bent out of shape with the pastor saying that pastor was not blameless. Two weeks after, the relative left Central Baptist, his young son about 13 was run over and killed! Something like that will really get the attention of one who thinks he is "blameless."

Every where you go you ought to be trying to establish "lasting relationships." That is what ole JAV has with the owner of this hotel, Harvey Douglen. I took our fellas and introduced all of them to him just before they left to go visit the Dead Sea and Masada, the ancient fortification situated on top of an isolated rock plateau [akin to a mesa] on the eastern edge of the Judaean Desert, overlooking the Dead See. Josephus tells us how, at the end of the First-Jewish Roman War, 960 Sicarri rebels hiding there committed mass suicide."

This is an excerpt from a letter to Pastors, the rest of the letter was ramblings about Israel this portion deals with people leaving WHBC.

JV is once again implying that if you leave WHBC then your children are going to die. He has used examples like this many times over the years.

JV once again is implying if the members that left Windsor Hill Baptist Cult kids are going to die for being disobedient to the anointed one (Tommy Boy).

I replied to him with this:  "Are God's callings without repentance? If that is so then why is Tom the Pastor at WHBC and not a missionary in Africa? Oh yeah he got his butt kicked (probably for fooling around with another mans wife, which is something that runs in the Vineyard family), and came home to hide behind mommy's skirt instead of being a tough guy and relying on the protection of God, or does God not protect those that defile the pulpit? If peoples kids die when leaving a church then why isn't Paul dead? He left his church and it wasn't on Biblical terms it was because he couldn't keep his pants on in the Philippines and he is alive living in adultery with a little bastard child and a whore for a wife (according to your teachings). But according to Vineyardism that is ok if it is a Vineyard doing it. Jack Hyles taught you well how to abuse women, take advantage of them and then blame everyone else and take the Bible out of context getting them to believe your kids will die if you go against the anointed one, aka a false preacher, Tom Vineyard, Jim Vineyard and Paula Vineyard."

Telling your congregation that your children may die if you leave the church sounds a lot like what Jim Jones was saying in Guyana many years ago when he forced them to drink the Kool-Aid or be shot for trying to leave the flock.

It is astounding that anyone listens to this old kook when he sounds just like a cult leader and has a history of behaving like a cult leader.

It makes one wonder since Tommy Boy called Bro. Bob Ross to come to his defense and make this all go away and he preaches on being on the wrong side of the pulpit and you will face God's judgment. Then Bro. Ross goes home and winds up in the hospital near death just a few days after his message. According to the teachings of Windsor Hills Baptist Cult this happened because Bro. Ross was on the wrong side of the pulpit as he preached a couple of Sunday's ago. I don't believe that is the case but that is what they teach up there so based on their own teachings this happened because Bro Ross came to the defense of Tommy Boy which is guilty as sin and on the wrong side of the pulpit.

But when a Vineyard does wrong it is ok in God's eyes because they are anointed ones and bad things don't happen to them unless it comes from attacks by the devil.

In the Bible Aaron lost two sons because they offered strange fire before the Lord (read Leviticus). It is more likely that God will remove someone from behind the pulpit and cut him off from his people then something bad happening to a church member that leaves because the Preacher is not doing what God commanded him to do.
 
Bro Ross is no spring chicken anymore, and illness may strikeus all unexpectedly but I can't say it didn'tcross my mind.


To be clearer, I like Bro Ross, and wish him no ill, and I have been praying for him, just saying that thought fleeted through my mind.
 
I was personally sorry to hear of him being down but yet wondered if it was not for what he did in support of Tom also.  Then I said to myself no, "that is how Vineyard thinks" and I don't want any part of that.
But I do wonder

I am glad Bro. Ross is recovering quickly now.  I hate to see anyone suffer and be in pain.
 
Just me said:
I was personally sorry to hear of him being down but yet wondered if it was not for what he did in support of Tom also.  Then I said to myself no, "that is how Vineyard thinks" and I don't want any part of that.
But I do wonder

I am glad Bro. Ross is recovering quickly now.  I hate to see anyone suffer and be in pain.
Click to expand...

I agree with not wanting harm on anyone. I am sure though you remember well the story he used to tell of the young man that broke his neck and drowned in 4 inches of water. He always pulled that picture out to try to scare someone that was "wandering from the fold."
 
"...the young man that broke his neck and drowned in 4 inches of water." I think was his favorite story. I do believe God will judge people for doing wrong I just don't believe he will judge them for leaving a church when a wanna be pastor refuses to leave after being brought before the church for his inappropriate behavior.

We will never know if God judged someone when something bad happens to them or if life just happened. Remember the Book of Job he didn't do anything wrong and looked at what happened to him. According to Vineyardism Job would have been an evil person.
 
TruthBearer said:
""THE CHURCH belongs to the LORD JESUS CHRIST. I would never want to do "anything" dis-loyal to him, or to his church."

A Christian "..that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not." [Psalm 15:4], will never do anything to hurt the church where his membership lies.

Christians who are "looking out for themselves" won’t worry in the least about their actions as they leave a church. I have preached for years "YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF BY THE WAY YOU LEAVE."

Joe Consford tells the story of the pastor who pastored Central Baptist in Center, Texas before Brother Dodson came. One of the great missionary Bob Hughes relatives got bent out of shape with the pastor saying that pastor was not blameless. Two weeks after, the relative left Central Baptist, his young son about 13 was run over and killed! Something like that will really get the attention of one who thinks he is "blameless."

Every where you go you ought to be trying to establish "lasting relationships." That is what ole JAV has with the owner of this hotel, Harvey Douglen. I took our fellas and introduced all of them to him just before they left to go visit the Dead Sea and Masada, the ancient fortification situated on top of an isolated rock plateau [akin to a mesa] on the eastern edge of the Judaean Desert, overlooking the Dead See. Josephus tells us how, at the end of the First-Jewish Roman War, 960 Sicarri rebels hiding there committed mass suicide."

This is an excerpt from a letter to Pastors, the rest of the letter was ramblings about Israel this portion deals with people leaving WHBC.

JV is once again implying that if you leave WHBC then your children are going to die. He has used examples like this many times over the years.

JV once again is implying if the members that left Windsor Hill Baptist Cult kids are going to die for being disobedient to the anointed one (Tommy Boy).

I replied to him with this:  "Are God's callings without repentance? If that is so then why is Tom the Pastor at WHBC and not a missionary in Africa? Oh yeah he got his butt kicked (probably for fooling around with another mans wife, which is something that runs in the Vineyard family), and came home to hide behind mommy's skirt instead of being a tough guy and relying on the protection of God, or does God not protect those that defile the pulpit? If peoples kids die when leaving a church then why isn't Paul dead? He left his church and it wasn't on Biblical terms it was because he couldn't keep his pants on in the Philippines and he is alive living in adultery with a little bastard child and a whore for a wife (according to your teachings). But according to Vineyardism that is ok if it is a Vineyard doing it. Jack Hyles taught you well how to abuse women, take advantage of them and then blame everyone else and take the Bible out of context getting them to believe your kids will die if you go against the anointed one, aka a false preacher, Tom Vineyard, Jim Vineyard and Paula Vineyard."

Telling your congregation that your children may die if you leave the church sounds a lot like what Jim Jones was saying in Guyana many years ago when he forced them to drink the Kool-Aid or be shot for trying to leave the flock.

It is astounding that anyone listens to this old kook when he sounds just like a cult leader and has a history of behaving like a cult leader.

It makes one wonder since Tommy Boy called Bro. Bob Ross to come to his defense and make this all go away and he preaches on being on the wrong side of the pulpit and you will face God's judgment. Then Bro. Ross goes home and winds up in the hospital near death just a few days after his message. According to the teachings of Windsor Hills Baptist Cult this happened because Bro. Ross was on the wrong side of the pulpit as he preached a couple of Sunday's ago. I don't believe that is the case but that is what they teach up there so based on their own teachings this happened because Bro Ross came to the defense of Tommy Boy which is guilty as sin and on the wrong side of the pulpit.

But when a Vineyard does wrong it is ok in God's eyes because they are anointed ones and bad things don't happen to them unless it comes from attacks by the devil.

In the Bible Aaron lost two sons because they offered strange fire before the Lord (read Leviticus). It is more likely that God will remove someone from behind the pulpit and cut him off from his people then something bad happening to a church member that leaves because the Preacher is not doing what God commanded him to do.
Click to expand...


I think that was harsh. Paul messed up but as far as I know did the right thing. He left the ministry and has not positioned himself for a return.

 
Did Paul do the right thing by confessing his sin before the church and then turning right around and get married?

The Bible teaches that if a man or women leave their spouse and marry another they are guilty of adultery.

Paul's confession was insincere, he confessed and asked for forgiveness and then choose a life of adultery according to the Bible. How is that doing the right thing?

He was living in adultery according to the Bible when his brother knowing this invited him up to pray at a youth conference, he was there to peddle World's Finest Chocolate during the youth conference that year. Which shows that Tom did not care about a known practicing sinner praying behind the pulpit of WHBC. This is no difference in God's eyes then allowing a practicing homosexual get up and pray to open the services.

Please explain how Paul did the right thing.

You have not seen harsh until you have seen how the Vineyard's have treated Paul's ex-wife and their kids. They are ruthless and do not deserve their grandchildren or niece's/nephew's. What Paul did was his own fault and he should take responsibility for his actions and not blame his wife for being a scumbag.
 
TruthBearer said:
Did Paul do the right thing by confessing his sin before the church and then turning right around and get married?

The Bible teaches that if a man or women leave their spouse and marry another they are guilty of adultery.

Paul's confession was insincere, he confessed and asked for forgiveness and then choose a life of adultery according to the Bible. How is that doing the right thing?

He was living in adultery according to the Bible when his brother knowing this invited him up to pray at a youth conference, he was there to peddle World's Finest Chocolate during the youth conference that year. Which shows that Tom did not care about a known practicing sinner praying behind the pulpit of WHBC. This is no difference in God's eyes then allowing a practicing homosexual get up and pray to open the services.

Please explain how Paul did the right thing.

You have not seen harsh until you have seen how the Vineyard's have treated Paul's ex-wife and their kids. They are ruthless and do not deserve their grandchildren or niece's/nephew's. What Paul did was his own fault and he should take responsibility for his actions and not blame his wife for being a scumbag.
Click to expand...

TruthBearer is 100% correct.
 
Paul Vineyard was caught committing adultery back in the early 90's by some men in his church but they didn't say anything and his wife was not aware of this until everything came out later. She lived with him many more years with him cheating on her through out that time.

The only reason he confessed before the church for the one is because his wife caught him with his pants down (pun intended).

Paul had even admitted that a homosexual "worked" on him in a massage parlor. You take that for what it is worth, but it does imply bad behavior.
 
You have not seen harsh until you have seen how the Vineyard's have treated Paul's ex-wife and their kids. They are ruthless and do not deserve their grandchildren or niece's/nephew's. What Paul did was his own fault and he should take responsibility for his actions and not blame his wife for being a scumbag.
[/quote]

How were they treated??  What happened to them??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
What about Joe Finn's loss of a child? I'm quite sure it was chalked up as bad choices on the boy's part and no fault whatsoever on the parents. But if something tragic happens to a dissenter it is automatically the judgment of God? How typically inconsistent.

PS: I do not condone Paul's actions, but at least he had the decency to step away from the pulpit.
 
Citadel of Truth said:
What about Joe Finn's loss of a child? I'm quite sure it was chalked up as bad choices on the boy's part and no fault whatsoever on the parents. But if something tragic happens to a dissenter it is automatically the judgment of God? How typically inconsistent.

PS: I do not condone Paul's actions, but at least he had the decency to step away from the pulpit.
Click to expand...

It absolutely was chalked up to bad choices on his part because quite honestly it was. He made a lot of bad choices that drove him to do what he did. But it is true that if something bad happens to someone who has left they will try to make everyone believe it happened because they didnt follow god vineyard.

As far as Paul is concerned he only stepped down cause he couldn't hide it anymore. Especially since one of the whores from the whore house he went to visited his church and started telling some of the men that she knew him cause he visited them all the time. He isn't any better than Tom in not being willing to step down.
 
Paul only stepped down because he had no choice. Family members of his wife were still going to WHBC so there was no way to hide his actions. Paul did not willing step down just like Tommy Boy is not going to willing step down.

Paul is still not repentant and shows this because he is still living in adultery. From his actions I doubt that he is loyal to his current wife. You don't cheat on your spouse for 20 years and then become a faithful husband overnight.
 
As far as Paul is concerned he only stepped down cause he couldn't hide it anymore. Especially since one of the whores from the whore house he went to visited his church and started telling some of the men that she knew him cause he visited them all the time. He isn't any better than Tom in not being willing to step down.
Click to expand...

I am no longer close enough to WHBC or OBC to disagree. I just know that one brother continues to preach while the other one does not. I certainly hope that after this trip to Israel with his dad that Paul doesn't come back a puppet.
 
Paul and Tommy Boy have always been puppets. JV is the puppet master that is how he controls what happens around him and in WHBC.

I find it odd how when JV goes to Israel he always mentions someday he would like to meet so and so's husband. Why does he always meet the wife first. I wonder how many new women they will meet on this trip.
 
Ole JAV is at it again. Another letter he sent out to pastors. A excerpt from his email:

"I worked for Dr. Jack Hyles for 4-1/2 years. He was being accused by everything imaginable at that time. When folks would come to me with their accusations, since JH was outside my circle, I had to "not touch God’s anointed." David had that much sense about King Saul 1 Samuel 26:11 The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed: but, I pray thee, take thou now the spear that is at his bolster, and the cruse of water, and let us go.

But, back to First Baptist Church in Hammond, the large number of people whom I knew that "left the church" in a dither, believing some "sower of discord," some “accuser” who had "feet that be swift in running to mischief."

My ‘in-Heaven’ mother-in-law used to say, "I best get my porch swept off, before I worry about someone else’s porch. Mammer, that was good advice.

If I were of a mind to do so, I could give you the names of folks whose children died tragically after they left, divorces of those who left, and many, many divorces of their children. Children who were born with birth defects, cystic fibrosis, and a host of other things - cancer, etc.

When the Bible teaches "you reap what you sow," you can’t lift up your hand against God’s anointed. David knew this although King Saul was a sorry rascal in much of his actions. He was worse than Jack Hyles. He was worse than I am.

But, on the airplane coming over, I put down the names of 187 families who left WHBC during the 30 years I pastored it, because of some "aught" they had against me. MY, OH MY, THE TRAGEDIES which are in those 187 families."

After this in his email he goes on to tell you how important and significant he is by saying he is not important or significant.

When will they ever realize that when someone leaves WHBC and goes to another chruch to serve the Lord this is not a bad thing? The Vineyard's especially the morphine addict JV believes that WHBC is the ONLY church in the world that is teaching God's word all other churches are led by false prophets and nobody can serve the Lord outside of WHBC (Windsor Hills Baptist CULT).

He mentions you reap what you sow. Why doesn't this apply to the adultrous son Paul? Why doesn't this apply to the perverted Tommy Boy? Why doesn't this apply to the cheating dirty old man Jim Vineyard?

We are all going to reap what we sow but the Vineyard's since they are the only anointed ones of God get a free pass.

Someone needs to tell the morphine addicted JV that the KJV does not stand for King Jim Vineyard.

We are all going to die for leaving WHBCult, we are going to get cancer, boils, our children are going to die just like when Job left WHBCult. Bad things only happen to those that go against the anointed ones at WHBC.

Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu were anointed by God and sinned against God just like Paul and Tom and they were struck down dead. But you want hear this example from JV.
 
Ah yes, the "Touch not mine annointed" ploy.  One of Vineyard's and all IFBxer's favorite whipping rods.  What a miss interpretation of Scripture.  And everyone falls for it.  Show me in the Scripture where God says not to touch his annointed.  When you find the 2 places that it is the Scritpure please, please, please read the entire chapter around the verses and then honestly answer one question for me; "Who are the annointed God is talking about?"

Then further please show me in the New Testament who the Bible says are God's annointed.

That will end that issue.
 
Anointed ones in the Bible were all anointed by God.

Today in order to become a Pastor you have to be Ordained by the Local Church, and there are no real requirements other than the Pastor and Deacons deciding to ordain someone.

Each church has their own rules/guidlines on how to do this but that does not make you an anointed one because a group of men decide to ordain you and fill out the paper work.

 
The referenced letter above in your response to this thread by JAV, is that a current one or is it from the past?

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top