John Piper is this true?

[Bruh]

ABUSED WIVES SHOULD "ENDURE VERBAL ABUSE FOR A SEASON" AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.


- JOHN PIPER

Did he actually say this? From preacher boys podcast.

 

[Dr. Duck]

ABUSED WIVES SHOULD "ENDURE VERBAL ABUSE FOR A SEASON" AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.


- JOHN PIPER

Did he actually say this? From preacher boys podcast.

Oh c’mon… he’s such a great Calvinist. Don’t you know?

 

[subllibrm]

I can't say that it is perfectly accurate but he is on record saying something similar.

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is what John Piper said, straight from the horse's mouth: "Now that's one kind of situation. Just a word on the other kind. If it's not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, and she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church."

John Piper on Women Submitting in Abusive Situations : John Piper : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Video of pastor John Piper discussing what complementarian wives should do when she is abused.. See time stamp 2:32 for start of quote below:Now that's one...

archive.org

And here are Piper's clarifying words on this issue:

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/clarifying-words-on-wife-abuse

 

[Ransom]

Judging by the clarification--and Piper didn't say he had changed his mind--I would surmise that the original marks were intended to be descriptive rather than prescriptive.

In other words, not "it's a wife's duty to put up with abuse for a time," but "it's a reality that she may have to endure some abuse before she can seek help."

 

[subllibrm]

One of the most "sexist" assumptions in our culture is that domestic abuse is received by the woman rather than the man. If you factor in verbal and emotional abuse, and include withholding sexual intimacy along with the violence, I am of the opinion that the victim is as likely to be the husband as it is the wife.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

ABUSED WIVES SHOULD "ENDURE VERBAL ABUSE FOR A SEASON" AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.


- JOHN PIPER

Did he actually say this? From preacher boys podcast.

Yes, he did. I heard him say it.

 

[abcaines]

Yes, he did. I heard him say it.

So... What is your take on what he said?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

So... What is your take on what he said?

He never meant that women should endure abuse. In the full ontext, it was about forgiveness, submission, not divorcing.

 

[Bruh]

He never meant that women should endure abuse. In the full ontext, it was about forgiveness, submission, not divorcing.

I’m not understanding. If he never meant for women to endure abuse. Then why would he say, AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.

Shouldn’t he have said, call the police? And divorce this man!

 

[subllibrm]

I’m not understanding. If he never meant for women to endure abuse. Then why would he say, AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.

Shouldn’t he have said, call the police? And divorce this man!

No room for repentance? No opportunity for redemption? No possibility of reconciliation?

Would anyone change their position if it were the wife that did the smacking?

 

[subllibrm]

Marriage is supposed to be a picture of Jesus and His bride. That has to be recognized while working through marital troubles.

 

[Bruh]

No room for repentance? No opportunity for redemption? No possibility of reconciliation?

Would anyone change their position if it were the wife that did the smacking?

It’s 100% different when a man hits a woman and when a woman hits a man.

If a husband hits a wife? Nope, no room for reconciliation. She should hopefully forgive him but to stay in a marriage like that? No, no need to stay in the marriage.

If you have a daughter and her husband hits her, go ahead and tell her to stay with him to work it out.

 

[Bruh]

Marriage is supposed to be a picture of Jesus and His bride. That has to be recognized while working through marital troubles.

Marital trouble is one thing. But physical abuse is altogether different.

You cannot put marital troubles and physical abuse in the same category.

 

[abcaines]

Would anyone change their position if it were the wife that did the smacking?

As for me, not much.

Let me qualify that just a bit... Bruh brought up a valid point... Man hitting woman is different but only to the extent it's not violent. I've heard of wives beating up their husbands but that's rare. More often, it's the woman who got beat up then when husband is passed out, she goes in and works him over with a baseball bat. Definitely not condoning such reprisals but I have heard of them producing repentance on the part of the husband.

However, and maybe it's because I'm a Boomer, I have more of a problem with men hitting women than vice versa. It's wrong either way and prosecution is warranted either way.

Mrs. abcaines has slapped me a couple times, mostly when I open my big mouth. Never a painful slap... more playful than angry, however, I will never lift a finger to her even in jest.

 

[Dr. Duck]

If a man is smacking around his wife, it’s the police who should be called first, not the pastor. Doing otherwise is how dirt gets swept under the rug (until aired clean by an attorney at a later date). There’s a long history of this mentality in the Catholic and IFB churches alike when it comes to dealing with women and children. The pastor plays the role of judge, jury and executioner. The issue is the pastor is quite often not well versed in much beyond theology, but his ego keeps telling him he is.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

I’m not understanding. If he never meant for women to endure abuse. Then why would he say, AND EVEN "PERHAPS BEING SMACKED ONE NIGHT," BEFORE SEEKING HELP FROM THE CHURCH.

Shouldn’t he have said, call the police? And divorce this man!

Why don't you ask him? I can give you his email or cell number.

 

[Bruh]

Why don't you ask him? I can give you his email or cell number.

It sounded like you listened to the speech and I could be wrong but it also sound like you were defending what he said.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

It sounded like you listened to the speech and I could be wrong but it also sound like you were defending what he said.

Yes on the first, no on the second. It is more nuanced than the simplistic way you present it as though he was condoning spousal abuse., I am not going to argue with you. Ask him. John.Piper@desiringgod.org.

 

[illinoisguy]

Here is an article that addresses the situation - over the years I have read disturbing reports of churches that pressure wives to remain with and cover up for abusive husbands, and even punish wives for reporting spousal abuse, and accuse them of "gossip" for asking for help with a husband who has battered them. (I am not suggesting that John Piper's church has such problems, and I accept Ransom's analysis that Piper probably did not intend to excuse such abuse).

#WhyIStayed: How Some Churches Enable Spousal Abuse — GRACE

Reflections on the Church’s culpability for domestic violence in the wake of #WhyIStayed, a hashtag trend which erupted after Ray Rice was filmed abusing his fiance.

www.netgrace.org

"I began to realize how often I have heard abuse victims share that the Church was the reason #WhyIStayed. I began remembering how often I have heard of women who wearily return to those who hurt them time and time again, because that is what their church told them to do. . . .

"Instead of helping vulnerable individuals understand the importance of reporting this criminal behavior, too many within churches prefer to push victims back into the arms of abusers as they congratulate themselves and praise God on another successful 'reconciliation.' These victimized spouses stay with those who hurt them, resigned to the hopeless belief that is what God wants them to do. . . .

"Does this make any sense? An abusive husband gets caught and says the 'right' words to his friends and is quickly embraced, as the wife is disciplined by his friends for taking steps to protect her life. Too many wives within our churches are intimidated back into abusive homes by unsupportive male leaders, who exploit their authority and misuse scripture in directing them to 'try harder' and 'stop making him angry.' This is a form of spiritual abuse that re-victimizes the abused and grants permission to abusers to continue their violence against a child of God. . . .

"Too many of us know abuse victims who have been instructed by a pastor or someone in their church to keep quiet about the abuse, and to stay with their abusive spouse in order to 'work things out.' They convince these abused that doing anything otherwise is considered to be a 'bad Christian witness.' The disgusting reality is that this has nothing to do with being a 'bad Christian witness.' and everything to do with a church that worships itself as it sacrifices its vulnerable. The 'bad Christian witness' is proclaiming to love Jesus as you silence victims and push them back into the fists of their abuser. This is an abomination to the very Gospel proclaimed by so many of these churches. Don’t they understand that Jesus gave his very life for the vulnerable and the abused? A church that silences abuse hasn’t encountered Jesus."