Josh Hamilton relapses....dealing with struggling Christians.

[ALAYMAN]

After his public apology earlier in the day, Hamilton appeared as scheduled Friday night at a Christian men's rally in Katy, Texas, near Houston. He again didn't take any questions, and spoke only to the congregation.

"I could hide in shame and not show up tonight and be withdrawn, but I didn't want to do that," Hamilton told the group while reiterating his Christian faith. "I'm doing what I had to do today. I am fessing up. I am going to be a man about it, I am fessing up. People are going to call me a hypocrite, but I am a sinful man.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7537732/texas-rangers-outfielder-josh-hamilton-relapse-alcohol

Former drug addict and baseball superstar, Josh Hamilton (a confessed evangelical Christian), had a relapse with alcohol recently.  There may be more to his moral failure than simply the alcohol incident, but that is speculative at this point.  Shortly after the relapse, he transparently confessed publicly his sin.  Within days of the incident he spoke at a church.  At this point I don't know exactly what role the speaking function served, but the incident prompted a question on restoration.  When a Christian in the public eye, like Hamilton, has a powerful history of redemption, but admits he's a work in progress, to what extent should they serve in a speaking function (ie, "leadership") in front of other Christians within the church body?

 

[Anchor]

Simple. It boils down to the matter of influence and authority.  All of us who are works in progress can and should be allowed to testify within the church (our own church to which we are accountable) of the ongoing work of grace on our behalf.  Hamilton is no different. 

However, if that public testimony is granted influence and authority commensurate with that of the church elders due to his celebrity status and not as one qualified as an elder  then that church (his own or another) is likely guilty of being a "respecter of persons" (Book of James) at least, and unscripturally providing elder authority/influence to one not Scripturally qualified at worst.

 

 

[Mick]

After his public apology earlier in the day, Hamilton appeared as scheduled Friday night at a Christian men's rally in Katy, Texas, near Houston. He again didn't take any questions, and spoke only to the congregation.

"I could hide in shame and not show up tonight and be withdrawn, but I didn't want to do that," Hamilton told the group while reiterating his Christian faith. "I'm doing what I had to do today. I am fessing up. I am going to be a man about it, I am fessing up. People are going to call me a hypocrite, but I am a sinful man.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7537732/texas-rangers-outfielder-josh-hamilton-relapse-alcohol

Former drug addict and baseball superstar, Josh Hamilton (a confessed evangelical Christian), had a relapse with alcohol recently.  There may be more to his moral failure than simply the alcohol incident, but that is speculative at this point.  Shortly after the relapse, he transparently confessed publicly his sin.  Within days of the incident he spoke at a church.  At this point I don't know exactly what role the speaking function served, but the incident prompted a question on restoration.  When a Christian in the public eye, like Hamilton, has a powerful history of redemption, but admits he's a work in progress, to what extent should they serve in a speaking function (ie, "leadership") in front of other Christians within the church body?

celbrity Christians.  Its wrong because people fall but when they do, should they be role models for the people in the congrgation?  No, I dont think so.

 

[Mathew Ward]

I wonder if they brought him because of his testimony or I should because of God's gracious dealing with him.  Then after the incident I wonder if they decided it was ok to bring him because it would show the struggle or they didn't think it would hurt the event.

 

[samspade]

The Bible is a chronicle of God's redemptive work in the face of human failure. Our lives should be the same. If that is the story that Josh Hamilton tells when he speaks then it's a great thing for people to hear. However, the timeline is also important. In his case he's been sober for a couple of years and had a relapse/fall. Is it too soon to be back on the speaking circuit? I can't say in this case. I will say that we christians are bad to take someone who has been through a dramatic redemptive experience and put them out front too soon, before they've had a chance to mature in their faith and have a solid foundation. It's not good for them. Just think if Paul would have spent his ministry retelling the story of the Damascus Road, but had never moved beyond there.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The Bible is a chronicle of God's redemptive work in the face of human failure. Our lives should be the same. If that is the story that Josh Hamilton tells when he speaks then it's a great thing for people to hear. However, the timeline is also important. In his case he's been sober for a couple of years and had a relapse/fall. Is it too soon to be back on the speaking circuit? I can't say in this case. I will say that we christians are bad to take someone who has been through a dramatic redemptive experience and put them out front too soon, before they've had a chance to mature in their faith and have a solid foundation. It's not good for them. Just think if Paul would have spent his ministry retelling the story of the Damascus Road, but had never moved beyond there.

First, good to see you here bro.


Very good points you made.  Mathew and Anchor also accurately touched on my feelings.  Celebrity Christians seem to be championed, and paraded in front of mega-congregations, as if they have some special story of redemption and struggle.  Makes the motive of the church suspect IMHO.  But I do give Hamilton kudos (assuming his OP statement is sincere) for the unvarnished and transparent manner in which he says he will continue to ask for prayers and help with his battle, which is much better than quitting on God and just runnin' with the devil.

On another pitiful (Christian) celebrity fallen note, Randy  Travis was arrested recently for public intoxication out in front of a Baptist church in Dallas. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/02/07/randy-travis-arrested-for-public-intoxication-which-celeb-is-worst-public-drunk/

 

[BuckeyeBaptist]

The Bible is a chronicle of God's redemptive work in the face of human failure. Our lives should be the same. If that is the story that Josh Hamilton tells when he speaks then it's a great thing for people to hear. However, the timeline is also important. In his case he's been sober for a couple of years and had a relapse/fall. Is it too soon to be back on the speaking circuit? I can't say in this case. I will say that we christians are bad to take someone who has been through a dramatic redemptive experience and put them out front too soon, before they've had a chance to mature in their faith and have a solid foundation. It's not good for them. Just think if Paul would have spent his ministry retelling the story of the Damascus Road, but had never moved beyond there.

First, good to see you here bro.


Very good points you made.  Mathew and Anchor also accurately touched on my feelings.  Celebrity Christians seem to be championed, and paraded in front of mega-congregations, as if they have some special story of redemption and struggle.  Makes the motive of the church suspect IMHO.  But I do give Hamilton kudos (assuming his OP statement is sincere) for the unvarnished and transparent manner in which he says he will continue to ask for prayers and help with his battle, which is much better than quitting on God and just runnin' with the devil.

On another pitiful (Christian) celebrity fallen note, Randy  Travis was arrested recently for public intoxication out in front of a Baptist church in Dallas. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/02/07/randy-travis-arrested-for-public-intoxication-which-celeb-is-worst-public-drunk/

Well better than intoxicated IN the Baptist church.


---
I:://../?ll=.,-81.

 

[Bro Blue]

Every head bowed, every eye closed anyone....

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=BuckeyeBaptist]
Well better than intoxicated IN the Baptist church.

[/quote]


Randy must be from one of those fermented wine in the Lord's Supper type churches.

 

[Just John]

The Bible doesn't end with the narrative of David when he screws up or falls. We hear the good the bad and the ugly about Samson in the Bible. The truth is life is a struggle for believers and non-believers alike. Im not much on celebrity Christians either but we can charitably assume this church may have had Hamilton in as a source of encouragement to others who struggle.  Okay, he relapsed and fell. That being the case what is the  message to in essence say, "Okay, you were good enough a week ago to speak to us but because you gave in to an addiction you are no longer good enough"? I can't imagine how hard some people who suffer from addictions struggle. And it's Pollyanna to say as some might that if they are a Christian they won't have those problems. I don't know the result of that meeting but it could have been the best place for Hamilton to have been and it could have reached others in a deeply and positively impact full way. He didn't seem to make any excuses. That's what an addict has to do. He could have been a good example to many. We can only speculate I guess.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

After his public apology earlier in the day, Hamilton appeared as scheduled Friday night at a Christian men's rally in Katy, Texas, near Houston. He again didn't take any questions, and spoke only to the congregation.

"I could hide in shame and not show up tonight and be withdrawn, but I didn't want to do that," Hamilton told the group while reiterating his Christian faith. "I'm doing what I had to do today. I am fessing up. I am going to be a man about it, I am fessing up. People are going to call me a hypocrite, but I am a sinful man.
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7537732/texas-rangers-outfielder-josh-hamilton-relapse-alcohol

Former drug addict and baseball superstar, Josh Hamilton (a confessed evangelical Christian), had a relapse with alcohol recently.  There may be more to his moral failure than simply the alcohol incident, but that is speculative at this point.  Shortly after the relapse, he transparently confessed publicly his sin.  Within days of the incident he spoke at a church.  At this point I don't know exactly what role the speaking function served, but the incident prompted a question on restoration.  When a Christian in the public eye, like Hamilton, has a powerful history of redemption, but admits he's a work in progress, to what extent should they serve in a speaking function (ie, "leadership") in front of other Christians within the church body?

His sin was public, so the confession should be as well.  We all sometimes tend to look at external sins (the ones we don't have) as the worse kind of sins.  Jesus told us that it is sins of the heart that no one sees that are just as bad.  We can be obedient, but not really submissive.  On the outside, everything looks hunky dory, but on the inside, we may hate our brother, covet our brother's possesions, or another woman than our wife.  If we live by the law, we will be judged by it and no one wins.  Thank God for his amazing grace and the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives to help us.

 

[Marji]

Well, God forbid a man be honest and open in front of a group of other men.

He should be taken down and have his mouth taped shut for confessing he's a sinful man.  REAL men don't struggle with sin.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The Bible doesn't end with the narrative of David when he screws up or falls. We hear the good the bad and the ugly about Samson in the Bible. The truth is life is a struggle for believers and non-believers alike. Im not much on celebrity Christians either but we can charitably assume this church may have had Hamilton in as a source of encouragement to others who struggle.  Okay, he relapsed and fell. That being the case what is the  message to in essence say, "Okay, you were good enough a week ago to speak to us but because you gave in to an addiction you are no longer good enough"? I can't imagine how hard some people who suffer from addictions struggle. And it's Pollyanna to say as some might that if they are a Christian they won't have those problems. I don't know the result of that meeting but it could have been the best place for Hamilton to have been and it could have reached others in a deeply and positively impact full way. He didn't seem to make any excuses. That's what an addict has to do. He could have been a good example to many. We can only speculate I guess.

I'm all for 70 X 7 forgiveness and restoration, but there are two important points to hash out here.  Should Josh Hamilton be received as a public inspirational speaker (professionally, for instance) at church?  Secondly, is it appropriate timing to speak as an authority on such matters within days of another fall from grace?

Well, God forbid a man be honest and open in front of a group of other men.

He should be taken down and have his mouth taped shut for confessing he's a sinful man.  REAL men don't struggle with sin.

I'm certainly not advocating shunning people who struggle with sin, but I am suggesting that we be cautious to not make idols of Christian celebrities.

 

[T-Bone]

The Bible doesn't end with the narrative of David when he screws up or falls. We hear the good the bad and the ugly about Samson in the Bible. The truth is life is a struggle for believers and non-believers alike. Im not much on celebrity Christians either but we can charitably assume this church may have had Hamilton in as a source of encouragement to others who struggle.  Okay, he relapsed and fell. That being the case what is the  message to in essence say, "Okay, you were good enough a week ago to speak to us but because you gave in to an addiction you are no longer good enough"? I can't imagine how hard some people who suffer from addictions struggle. And it's Pollyanna to say as some might that if they are a Christian they won't have those problems. I don't know the result of that meeting but it could have been the best place for Hamilton to have been and it could have reached others in a deeply and positively impact full way. He didn't seem to make any excuses. That's what an addict has to do. He could have been a good example to many. We can only speculate I guess.

I'm all for 70 X 7 forgiveness and restoration, but there are two important points to hash out here.  Should Josh Hamilton be received as a public inspirational speaker (professionally, for instance) at church?  Secondly, just is it appropriate timing to speak as an authority on such matters within days of another fall from grace?

Well, God forbid a man be honest and open in front of a group of other men.

He should be taken down and have his mouth taped shut for confessing he's a sinful man.  REAL men don't struggle with sin.

I'm certainly not advocating shunning people who struggle with sin, but I am suggesting that we be cautious to not make idols of Christian celebrities.

Agreed....we have turned our faith into a personality driven religious system...we seem to care more about the celebrity than about Christ...people will run all over the place to hear a "big name" Christian celebrity...while at the same time ignoring Christ's teaching.  If the church would quit exalting these celebrities then they would not have so far to fall.

 

[Bro Blue]

What do you guys think about the ex-motocrosser, and the holy roller dude with the monster truck?

 

[T-Bone]

What do you guys think about the ex-motocrosser, and the holy roller dude with the monster truck?

I guess my question would be ....Why?

 

[Bro Blue]

Ya'll were talking about celebrity christians and I thought of those two. Todd Bennick and the monster truck guy have been to our church and jumped buses and smashed cars respectively. Just wondering if you guys had heard of them.

 

[Marji]

Well, God forbid a man be honest and open in front of a group of other men.

He should be taken down and have his mouth taped shut for confessing he's a sinful man.  REAL men don't struggle with sin.

I'm certainly not advocating shunning people who struggle with sin, but I am suggesting that we be cautious to not make idols of Christian celebrities.
[/quote]

I don't even know who he is so I don't relate to the whole Christian celebrity thing.  I just see it as a man, trying to be real with other men in order to be of some encouragement.  I feel like a lot of Christian men feel like they have to "appear" like they have it all together in order to be respected by others.  I see it all the time on this forum...the whole appearance thing is such a trap.

 

[JrChurch]

Sounds like the man needs more counseling, more time to be restored and less limelight.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Marji]
I don't even know who he is so I don't relate to the whole Christian celebrity thing.[/quote]

Are you saying that you don't know of the phenomenon where celebrities are used in a Christian worship context in order to draw a crowd?

  I just see it as a man, trying to be real with other men in order to be of some encouragement.

Yes, I agree with that sentiment.  Have you ever heard somebody give their testimony and it becomes a brag-fest about how awful their sin was?  They go into every sordid and unnecessary detail.  That is inappropriate.  Yes, they should glory in where God has taken them from, but not glorify their former lifestyle and make it the central focus.  There's a difference though IMHO in a man asking for help with his struggle, and one who is billed as a featured speaker, one that is supposedly experiencing substantial Christian maturity and victory.  Timing is paramount.  It is inappropriate to bring him in 3 days after a relapse, as the featured speaker at a Christian rock concert and comedy show.  That seems to be treating the soberness of the moment a bit flippantly.   

I feel like a lot of Christian men feel like they have to "appear" like they have it all together in order to be respected by others.  I see it all the time on this forum...the whole appearance thing is such a trap.

Yes, I totally agree that we shouldn't put on airs, pretending that we never have struggles with the flesh.  That sort of artificiality is easily exploited as fake, similar to those who pretend that they've achieved sinless perfection.  In this case however, I'm not saying that the only person who has a right to stand before people is a perfect Christian, but rather that one who is a novice, or recently taken in by their sinful temptation, should experience growth before they offer themselves up as an example.  In Hamilton's last lapse he was not only photographed drinking and partying at a nightclub, but taking "body shots" (and giving them) with women who were not his wife.  That sort of licentiousness takes awhile to recover from before you present yourself as a model for others, and he certainly does that in some respect, as he has written a book on the matter of falling and getting back up.  He speaks on the public circuit of Christian men's fellowships.  It would be like a 16 year old standing up and extolling the importance of perseverance through trials in old age, or a childless person pontificating on parenthood endlessly.  They might get some of their points right, but their credibility is suspect.