Just war theory applied to fundamentalism

pastorryanhayden

pastorryanhayden

New member
Elect
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
283
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
Mattoon, IL
I've heard a lot of talk lately about just war theory.  Basically it comes down to doing as little damage as possible to tackle your opponent and only targeting enemy combatants.

I'm wondering, do we apply just war theory when we "earnestly contend for the faith?"  Do we only try to defeat the error at hand?  Do we lump in "non-combatants?"

I know when it comes to "standing for truth" I've been guilty of using a bomb where a bullet would do.

What do you think? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
pastorryanhayden said:
I've heard a lot of talk lately about just war theory.  Basically it comes down to doing as little damage as possible to tackle your opponent and only targeting enemy combatants.
Click to expand...

And making sure the response is proportional to the justifying action, there it's reasonable chance of success,  and the inevitable injustice caused by your actions doesn't outweigh the injustice you are stopping.    ;)
 
If you are a good HACker, you proclaim that your friends have been attacked and then you "Drop the Bomb." 

(I was there.)
8)
 
Sometimes, God tells us to kill man, woman, child and beast.  War is Hell. 
The U.S. became a weak nation ,militarily, when ( against its own Constitution) it entered into the bondage of the Geneva Convention. 
Your enemy is not constrained to fight a 'just war'. 
You should seek to avoid war, as long as the potential enemy hasn't encroached on your liberty, but never allow a foreign entity to encroach on your liberty.
Once war is declared, your task is to cause the enemy to lose the desire to ever fight you again.
There was a time when captured enemy Muslims were executed by bullet dipped in pig's blood, to ensure that the enemy knew that they would be disqualified from martyrdom, and go straight to Hell.
That said, contending for the faith isn't war, it is a sporting event.  It has a judge, rules, and arena, and is not meant to destroy anyone.  It is meant to reveal the better discipline, as a martial arts tourney would do.

Anishinaabe

 
Prophet,
I think you are off in your thinking about war.  It's wrong to go to Old Testament Israel as an example of how war should be carried out.  When you look at Old Testament Israel, there are three differences between us and them.
1) They were acting on direct, special revelation from God.  Unless you believe that God is still giving direct revelation to people (I don't) then we cannot act with the same moral certainty that the OT jews did.  The best we can do is to go to scripture, including the New Testament, and find out how, why, when and if we should wage war.
2) The Old Testament jews, acting under God's direct command, were acting in various cases as his agents of judgment.  The ONLY moral justification for purposely killing women and children is the justice of God and it should only be done at his direct command.
3) The Old Testament jews lived in a different age.  God dealt primarily with his people as a nation, rather than as a church, and they did not have (at least not as clearly) our New Testament "love thy enemies" and "turn the other cheek" teaching.
So, while I may cede your point that "contending for the faith" is a contest like an athletic event with rules (I'm not sure of that) I don't think your thinking of war in general is biblical.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
 
Do we lump in "non-combatants"

 
Click to expand...


In spiritual warfare is there really such a thing?
 
I cannot really speak in regard to how it specifically applies to fundamentalism, being an Anglo-Catholic Episcopalutheran...

But for Christians in general, I think the OP is onto something important.

Amen, Pastor Ryan!  :D
 
pastorryanhayden said:
Prophet,
I think you are off in your thinking about war.  It's wrong to go to Old Testament Israel as an example of how war should be carried out.  When you look at Old Testament Israel, there are three differences between us and them.
1) They were acting on direct, special revelation from God.  Unless you believe that God is still giving direct revelation to people (I don't) then we cannot act with the same moral certainty that the OT jews did.  The best we can do is to go to scripture, including the New Testament, and find out how, why, when and if we should wage war.
2) The Old Testament jews, acting under God's direct command, were acting in various cases as his agents of judgment.  The ONLY moral justification for purposely killing women and children is the justice of God and it should only be done at his direct command.
3) The Old Testament jews lived in a different age.  God dealt primarily with his people as a nation, rather than as a church, and they did not have (at least not as clearly) our New Testament "love thy enemies" and "turn the other cheek" teaching.
So, while I may cede your point that "contending for the faith" is a contest like an athletic event with rules (I'm not sure of that) I don't think your thinking of war in general is biblical.
Click to expand...
If you kill a Muslim boy's father, but not the boy, he will grow up to kill your son one day, and his mama will make sure of it.
  You haven't been a warrior, so you don't understand the fallacy of  your modernist view of war.  War is the acquisition of territory.  You lose track of that, and you spin your wheels (Korea, Vietnam, etc.). 
WWII was ended, when we killed 'civillians' in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
"Happy shall he be that dasheth thy little ones against the stones" applies to any people wrongly attacked.
And 'love your enemy' isn't written to those who are called upon to defend the weak in their society, by warring.  Rightly divide.  It is personal.
You want to defeat a threat to those that God entrusted to you for protection?  Hit them so hard, that they can't bear to keep fighting.  Raise the ante, til they fold.  Peace through superior fire power.
A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.

Anishinaabe

 
[quote author=prophet]A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.[/quote]

:eek:

This has to be one of the worst interpretations of Scripture that I've ever seen.
 
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I try to remember that my battle is not with the person as much as it is the spiritual error behind that person.  Someone trapped is as much a victim as anything else.  Paul gave Timothy some wise advise ...

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Notice the concern for the opponent?  God just might grant them repentance, and our response should be predicated upon that option.  The hatred, spitefulness, and general all-around meanness that many bring to religious disputes is not of God.  However, as far as what Satan and his imps do, there should be no pity, no quarter given, and no end to that battle until final victory -- and that is the spiritual element, or motivating force behind "evil."
 
The lyrics are relevant.

Twila Paris - Rescue the Prisoner

See the insolent man standing on the street
Hear the thundering sound of rebellious feet
Demanding rights, defending wrong
It can bring the righteous blood to boil
And we ask, "Oh Lord, how long?

Oh, Lord, how long?"
This is not the enemy
Flesh and blood have been deceived
When we move beyond the anger
We will see

We've got to rescue the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner
Prisoner of war
That's what He came here for
Rescue the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner

In the beautiful land, hear the rivers cry
See the innocent ones learning well a lie
"There is no right, there is no wrong"
It can almost make your blood run cold
And we pray, "Lord, make us strong
Lord, make us strong"

This is not the enemy
Jesus died to make them free
Love will reach behind the danger
Come with me

We've got to rescue the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner
Prisoner of war
That's what He came here for
Rescue the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner

We are called to be a light
That even blinded eyes can see
To break the chains
To bind the wounds
And to proclaim the captive free

Rescue the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner
Pray for the prisoner
Rescue the prisoner
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=prophet]A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.
Click to expand...

:eek:

This has to be one of the worst interpretations of Scripture that I've ever seen.
[/quote]

You really struggle with rhetorical use of the English language (metaphor, metonymy, hyperbole, chiasmus etc.) don't you?

That was a rhetorical question....meaning I already know the answer.... :)
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=prophet]A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.
Click to expand...

:eek:

This has to be one of the worst interpretations of Scripture that I've ever seen.
[/quote]This isnt an interpretation of Scripture, it is a quote from the U.S.M.C.

Anishinabe

 
I notice a lot of people fail to recognize quotes and then misinterpret the intent of the poster. 

EDIT:  Maybe we should get into the habit of identifying quotes.  Like:

A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.

--USMC

Gimme some sugar, baby.

--Ash, from "Army of Darkness"

 
tumblr_mtwkcqEorb1s59098o1_500.jpg
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
I notice a lot of people fail to recognize quotes and then misinterpret the intent of the poster. 

EDIT:  Maybe we should get into the habit of identifying quotes.  Like:

A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy, and blessed are the peacemakers.

--USMC

Gimme some sugar, baby.

--Ash, from "Army of Darkness"
Click to expand...

That is my habit and precisely for that reason.

Exception: My unidentified sig quote, because there was no more room. It's Bob Dylan, from his song Slow Train Coming.
 
I consider myself your friend as well and as your friend I think you should listen to aleshanee and ammend your posting ways.
 
The Christian army is the only one I know of that is commanded to actively recruit from it's own enemies. - me
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top