Ken Ham (Creation) | Bill Nye (Evolution) Debate

[rsc2a]

[quote author=admin]The debate over the infallibility/inerrancy of Scripture is being pitted against humanism's greatest new untestable theory.[/quote]

The debate over one particular interpretation of two chapters of the Bible held to by a minority of Christians is being pitted against a foundational theory of modern biology.

And what I find problematic with the debate was it did nothing more than reinforce the false divide between faith and science that many have erected.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

His real kvetch is that he was not included in the debate.

Not sure how you got that "opinion" from that article, but OK.....

Why must we focus on the subjective "who won".....

Gee, I don't know.  Maybe because it was a debate? 

 

 

[rsc2a]

I didn't watch the debate but I've read from many sources that Ham said Christians who disagreed with YEC either hadn't read their Bibles or didn't really believe it and that it was Nye who ended up defending all those of the faith who reject YEC.

In the part of the debate mattered most to myself (i.e. respect, grace, love, etc), the atheisticish agnostic seems to have "won" instead of our Christian brother.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=admin]The debate over the infallibility/inerrancy of Scripture is being pitted against humanism's greatest new untestable theory.

The debate over one particular interpretation of two chapters of the Bible held to by a minority of Christians is being pitted against a foundational theory of modern biology.

And what I find problematic with the debate was it did nothing more than reinforce the false divide between faith and science that many have erected.
[/quote]

You're just a silly heretic that knows its more than just the interpretation of "two chapters" in Genesis. Why anyone would listen to anything you have to say.... is beyond me. You're a joke. A wannabe teacher without any talent or God given gift to be much of anything.

Admin is right. Ultimately, the issue comes down to issues of infallibility and inerrancy. You worthless "Higher Critics" think you know more than Moses, Paul, or any of the disciples before you. Its pitiful..... shameless and ridiculous.

 

[Tim]

Bill Nye does have a catchy theme song ...

http://youtu.be/P5-ZFFOWoaU

 

[ddgently]

The debate over the infallibility/inerrancy of Scripture is being pitted against humanism's greatest new untestable theory.

To paraphrahse Matt Appling, "Infallibility/inerrancy is something fundamentalists made up when their preferred interpretations of Scripture became untenable.

Evolution has been test over, and over, and over again. It happens. Please, let's deal with it and move on.

RWW News: Even Pat Robertson Attacks Creationism As A "Joke"

And what I find problematic with the debate was it did nothing more than reinforce the false divide between faith and science that many have erected.

AMEN!

You're just a silly heretic that knows its more than just the interpretation of "two chapters" in Genesis.

You're right . . . it's actually the first 11 chapters of Genesis that were never meant to be a literal history.

Why anyone would listen to anything you have to say.... is beyond me. You're a joke. A wannabe teacher without any talent or God given gift to be much of anything.

Do you live near rsc2a? Because if you do, and if you really feel that way about him, you should have the courage to say it to his face, instead of behind the anonymity of an internet forum.

Admin is right. Ultimately, the issue comes down to issues of infallibility and inerrancy. You worthless "Higher Critics" think you know more than Moses, Paul, or any of the disciples before you. Its pitiful..... shameless and ridiculous.

You sure have a lot of venom for people you don't even know.

But let me ask you this: is it fair to Moses, Paul, or any other disciple to force their writings to answer questions that Moses, Paul, and the other disciples never meant for them to answer?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ddgently]

Why anyone would listen to anything you have to say.... is beyond me. You're a joke. A wannabe teacher without any talent or God given gift to be much of anything.

Do you live near rsc2a? Because if you do, and if you really feel that way about him, you should have the courage to say it to his face, instead of behind the anonymity of an internet forum.[/quote]

It actually just accentuates my point about why Nye won the debate.

Take the neighbor who is totally pagan but shows kindness to his neighbor and the other neighbor who professes Christ but acts like ^^^^. Which one will have more influence with folks in their kid's PTA group?

[quote author=ddgently]

Admin is right. Ultimately, the issue comes down to issues of infallibility and inerrancy. You worthless "Higher Critics" think you know more than Moses, Paul, or any of the disciples before you. Its pitiful..... shameless and ridiculous.

You sure have a lot of venom for people you don't even know.

But let me ask you this: is it fair to Moses, Paul, or any other disciple to force their writings to answer questions that Moses, Paul, and the other disciples never meant for them to answer?
[/quote]

You're so proud. To think you know more than Moses about internal combustion engines or more than Paul about world geography...

 

[christundivided]

AMEN!

You don't even know what truth is. AMEN is an oxymoron to you.

Y

ou're right . . . it's actually the first 11 chapters of Genesis that were never meant to be a literal history.

Actually. Its more than that. Either way, I am glad you think rsc2a is wrong. Even a man coming off a fresh lobotomy knows better.

Do you live near rsc2a? Because if you do, and if you really feel that way about him, you should have the courage to say it to his face, instead of behind the anonymity of an internet forum.

Like it would make a difference. Do you think he could "whoop me"? You looking to fight? Rsc2a looking to fight? Can't take the heat?

I am all for anonymity. Its here so moron like yourself can't do a "drive by".

Whether you believe it or not. I'd tell it your face if you were standing right in front of me.

You sure have a lot of venom for people you don't even know.

I know what you believe. I know what that moron rsc2a believes. You are no better than what you believe. What you believe is worthless......

But let me ask you this: is it fair to Moses, Paul, or any other disciple to force their writings to answer questions that Moses, Paul, and the other disciples never meant for them to answer?

Like you know exactly what they meant to say..... Higher Critic....

They said what they meant to say. Exactly what they meant to say. Their words where the very Words of God. You have refused to say whether you believe in inerrancy and infallibility as applied to the Scriptures. Only a coward would refuse to answer.

 

[christundivided]

It actually just accentuates my point about why Nye won the debate.

Take the neighbor who is totally pagan but shows kindness to his neighbor and the other neighbor who professes Christ but acts like ^^^^. Which one will have more influence with folks in their kid's PTA group?

This coming from the guy that began his life on this forum the words "the heretic" in his profile. I took you at your word. I can't help but notice you've gotten twice as many "reds" as I do or most anyone else here. Don't be obtuse.

You're so proud. To think you know more than Moses about internal combustion engines or more than Paul about world geography...

What does knowing about combustion engines have to do with what Moses received from God??? Are you reading a "Shop manual" or  the "Word of God"?

MORON.

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

 

[christundivided]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

That is the first time I've ever seen you come right out and say that Paul was a heretic. I imagine you will face God with what you've said. I had thought there was hope for you. I'm sure you feel comfortable in your new found liberty to disparage your Apostle. Enjoy the crow.....

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

That is the first time I've ever seen you come right out and say that Paul was a heretic. I imagine you will face God with what you've said. I had thought there was hope for you. I'm sure you feel comfortable in your new found liberty to disparage your Apostle. Enjoy the crow.....

Not my "Apostle" and certainly not Jesus' "Apostle". Jesus could have chosen him with the twelve (Paul was alive at the time) and personally trained him for the ministry but for some reason didn't do it.

 

[ddgently]

AMEN!

You don't even know what truth is. AMEN is an oxymoron to you.

I'd respond, but I can't tell if what you're saying is true. . .

Do you live near rsc2a? Because if you do, and if you really feel that way about him, you should have the courage to say it to his face, instead of behind the anonymity of an internet forum.

Like it would make a difference. Do you think he could "whoop me"? You looking to fight? Rsc2a looking to fight? Can't take the heat?

I am all for anonymity. Its here so moron like yourself can't do a "drive by".

Whoa, all right. Calm down, Hoss. No one wants to fight you. Or whoop you. Or do a drive by on you.

Whether you believe it or not. I'd tell it your face if you were standing right in front of me.

You must be so pleasant to be around.

You sure have a lot of venom for people you don't even know.

I know what you believe. I know what that moron rsc2a believes. You are no better than what you believe. What you believe is worthless......

When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.

Too bad you weren't around to tell him how worthless the crowds were, he could have saved himself a lot of trouble.

But let me ask you this: is it fair to Moses, Paul, or any other disciple to force their writings to answer questions that Moses, Paul, and the other disciples never meant for them to answer?

Like you know exactly what they meant to say..... Higher Critic....

They said what they meant to say. Exactly what they meant to say.

"I'm blue."

Quick: do I mean that I have azure pigment, or do I mean that I'm sad?

Words require interpretation. You're interpreting. I'm interpreting. Written text doesn't "say" anything. It requires a reader to work with the writer.

Their words where the very Words of God.

But to the rest I say, not the Lord. . .

. . . I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion . . .

That which I am speaking, I am not speaking as the Lord would. . .

Except for the words that aren't. . .

You have refused to say whether you believe in inerrancy and infallibility as applied to the Scriptures. Only a coward would refuse to answer.

Broadly and categorically, a la the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy: no, I don't believe in it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

Could you be more specific about the verses in Genesis and Ezekiel?  That would be very interesting, IMO. 

 

[christundivided]

"I'm blue."

Quick: do I mean that I have azure pigment, or do I mean that I'm sad?

Words require interpretation. You're interpreting. I'm interpreting. Written text doesn't "say" anything. It requires a reader to work with the writer.

Sorry numb nut.... "I'm Blue" is not in the Scriptures. I don't have to determine what you mean by "I'm Blue". If you're going to give an example. Give a biblical example and please don't play on the queerness of "English". Try to be honest.

Except for the words that aren't. . .

Its really funny that you quote references that specifically deal their words are opinions. I'd say that was a really good thing to know. However, don't take those words and then apply them to EVERYTHING in the Scriptures. Where opinion is expressed... OPINION is referenced.

Broadly and categorically, a la the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy: no, I don't believe in it.

Which parts? I'm sure its more than one place.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

Could you be more specific about the verses in Genesis and Ezekiel?  That would be very interesting, IMO.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. (Matt. 7:15.)

He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them: (John 10:12)

Jacob prophesied about "the latter days" (which included a prophecy about "Shiloh" - Jesus) (Gen. 49:1)
Benjamin is a wolf that raveneth: In the morning she shall devour the prey, And at even[ing] he shall divide the spoil. (Gen 49:27)

Paul was a Benjamite. "For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." and that he was "...of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin."

Ezekiel prophesies: Her priests have done violence to my law, and have profaned my holy things: they have made no distinction between the holy and the common, neither have they caused men to discern between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, that they may get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed for them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, when Jehovah hath not spoken. (Eze 22:26-28)

Paul claimed to have visions, claimed to speak on behalf of Jehovah, did away with the sabbath laws and taught that meat offered to idols was not unclean.

That will get you started.

 

[ddgently]

"I'm blue."

Quick: do I mean that I have azure pigment, or do I mean that I'm sad?

Words require interpretation. You're interpreting. I'm interpreting. Written text doesn't "say" anything. It requires a reader to work with the writer.

Sorry numb nut.... "I'm Blue" is not in the Scriptures. I don't have to determine what you mean by "I'm Blue". If you're going to give an example. Give a biblical example and please don't play on the queerness of "English". Try to be honest.

You're the one who was talking about the use of idiom in the Bible last month. "I'm blue" is an English idiom. I thought we both agreed that the Bible is full of idioms.

We also putatively agree that the Bible is composed of different genres. We disagree on the scope of those genres (I would argue they include myth), and on how to determine what genre we're in. Fair assessment?

Except for the words that aren't. . .

Its really funny that you quote references that specifically deal their words are opinions. I'd say that was a really good thing to know. However, don't take those words and then apply them to EVERYTHING in the Scriptures. Where opinion is expressed... OPINION is referenced.

I don't apply them to EVERYTHING in the Scriptures either. But you had just said that all the words in the Bible were God's words. But some of the words aren't.

Broadly and categorically, a la the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy: no, I don't believe in it.

Which parts? I'm sure its more than one place.

I'm not going to go through it point by point. I largely agree with it. I think this discussion would better fit on the thread you just started though, and let this one get back to the #HamonNye debate.

 

[christundivided]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

That is the first time I've ever seen you come right out and say that Paul was a heretic. I imagine you will face God with what you've said. I had thought there was hope for you. I'm sure you feel comfortable in your new found liberty to disparage your Apostle. Enjoy the crow.....

Not my "Apostle" and certainly not Jesus' "Apostle". Jesus could have chosen him with the twelve (Paul was alive at the time) and personally trained him for the ministry but for some reason didn't do it.

Sure he is your apostle. You're a Gentile. I know you're trying to be a "Jew"... but they aren't going to accept you as such. You don't have the bloodline.

Paul was the fulfillment of the prophecy found in Psalm 69:25.

I'd also remind you that Jesus didn't personally choose Mathias. So... put that in your pipe and smoke it. I imagine you really don't give much credence to idea of any apostle.

 

[christundivided]

You'll face God with what you said about Paul.

What about me? I would be delighted to. Paul was an outright heretic who changed the gospel that Jesus taught and made it into a gospel of idolatry. The "Jesus" Paul met on the Damascus Road was not the "Jesus" of the canonical Gospels. Paul was prophesied about in Genesis, Ezekiel and even Jesus had a say about the circumstances around "voice in the wilderness" saying it wasn't going to be Himself.

But anyway, I digress.

(That ought to get the Marcionite and Gnostic juices flowing... )

Could you be more specific about the verses in Genesis and Ezekiel?  That would be very interesting, IMO.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. (Matt. 7:15.)

He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them: (John 10:12)

Jacob prophesied about "the latter days" (which included a prophecy about "Shiloh" - Jesus) (Gen. 49:1)
Benjamin is a wolf that raveneth: In the morning she shall devour the prey, And at even[ing] he shall divide the spoil. (Gen 49:27)

Paul was a Benjamite. "For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." and that he was "...of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin."

Ezekiel prophesies: Her priests have done violence to my law, and have profaned my holy things: they have made no distinction between the holy and the common, neither have they caused men to discern between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, that they may get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed for them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, when Jehovah hath not spoken. (Eze 22:26-28)

Paul claimed to have visions, claimed to speak on behalf of Jehovah, did away with the sabbath laws and taught that meat offered to idols was not unclean.

That will get you started.

The prophecy concerning Benjamin was fulfilled in Judges 21:23.

You don't keep the Sabbath and you certainly don't know what "your meat" is being offered to.... Do you buy all things "kosher"?

 

[christundivided]

You're the one who was talking about the use of idiom in the Bible last month. "I'm blue" is an English idiom. I thought we both agreed that the Bible is full of idioms.

So dishonest.... You didn't say one thing about an "idiom"... then I could have easily answered your question.

We also putatively agree that the Bible is composed of different genres. We disagree on the scope of those genres (I would argue they include myth), and on how to determine what genre we're in. Fair assessment?

What you call a "myth".... I call a God given/demanded preservation of historical fact from one generation to another.

Except for the words that aren't. . .

I don't apply them to EVERYTHING in the Scriptures either. But you had just said that all the words in the Bible were God's words. But some of the words aren't.

Sure they are. God's desire was for Paul to give his opinion as an opinion. Get it? It is no less inspired. I know its is difficult to adequately deal with issue before you.... but do try to keep up with the basics.

I'm not going to go through it point by point. I largely agree with it. I think this discussion would better fit on the thread you just started though, and let this one get back to the #HamonNye debate.

Otay.