Kenny Baldwin

[Bruh]

I meant if you're upbringing were other than it were. It's not Christianity that makes you say that. It's your nurturing.

If you fell away, God forbid, and started chasing skirts, hanging out in bars, watching porn...well, you're corrupted. What sexual perversion couldn't you do?

I think youre changing the issue but that’s ok we can have this discussion.

So, yes sometimes when a man is sexually abused as a child there are psychological factors that take place. I would agree that it definitely messes with the psyche.

Is this what you’re saying?

 

[ALAYMAN]

"Let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall" (1 Cor. 10:12).

How can Shiflett know he will always be immune from tempation? He doesn't know what's coming in the future.Maybe it won't be young boys, but something else--and "at least I wasn't sexting teenagers" won't cut the muster.

I think it’s a fair inference, but I have read some of his FB stuff, and he seems to generally rail against a lot of of the things that IFBXers are known for, so I took it that he was speaking out against the occasionally over-authoritarian and patriarchal emphasis in IFB-land that says “boys will be boys”.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I would never allow a convicted child molester be a member of my church. It appears you would. We see things much different. It’s not about forgiveness. It about protecting women and children.

What if that man sits in your church and lust after the children? Weird how not one person has answered this!

I’m starting to believe that some of the men have an issue with me and the guy who wrote the article because we are calling men like Pervert Kenny out for what he is.

I respect and admire your desire to protect the most vulnerable and innocent among us, but asking “what if” questions like people’s propensity to lust in church iver children is too narrowly focused because there can be all sorts of inappropriate and sinful thoughts in people’s minds anytime and anywhere. The church-house isn’t some clove of garlic to keep the vampires away. Men may be lusting after the women’s feet because of their open-toed shoes in your church.

 

[Bruh]

I respect and admire your desire to protect the most vulnerable and innocent among us, but asking “what if” questions like people’s propensity to lust in church iver children is too narrowly focused because there can be all sorts of inappropriate and sinful thoughts in people’s minds anytime and anywhere. The church-house isn’t some clove of garlic to keep the vampires away. Men may be lusting after the women’s feet because of their open-toed shoes in your church.

great point. You actually made me laugh out loud. I even read what you said to my wife. Who is sitting next to me in our recliners.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What examples could you give that would be an exception? Thanks!

We allowed a man convicted of sex offense 15 years in the past to attend our services….but always accompanied/shadowed by an assigned deacon.

 

[voicecrying]

We allowed a man convicted of sex offense 15 years in the past to attend our services….but always accompanied/shadowed by an assigned deacon.

That is a reasonable approach.

 

[subllibrm]

I understand the idea that within certain ideologies there will be a circling the wagon mentality that will justify anything, even the unjustifiable.

This made me giggle.

 

[subllibrm]

You act like we’re talking about getting drunk or overeating or if a man cheats on his wife.

If there are other denominations that talk like this I haven’t heard of them.

I’m guessing you are a member of a IFB church that welcomes these people into the membership?

Here’s the problem. If a man has a problem with alcoholism and backslides he isn’t destroying a child’s life.

If a child molester backslides guess what happens?

This may be one of the worst cases of miscomprehension I have ever seen.

 

[illinoisguy]

I do not have a "one size fits all" answer to the question of whether or not to allow sex offenders, or those with kinky predilections, to join and/or attend a local church. Such decisions are to be made within the congregation of each local church. However, I would suggest that when such decisions are made, they should take two factors into account.

(1) How do the current members of the church feel about it, and is there a possibility of losing current or prospective members of the church, if a questionable individual is allowed to join/attend. Is it worth it to lose a bunch of long-time faithful members, in order to take in one person who is controversial or possibly disruptive?

(2) How will sister churches, of the same denomination, association or unaffiliated fellowship, react to the decision. Is it worth it to damage our reputation with sister churches, and to endanger their reputation, over such a controversial decision?

For a discussion of a somewhat similar controversial situation within the Presbyterian Church in America, with regard to the ordination of an individual who admits to same-sex attraction, see this article:

"You could have used your rights to prevent this whole controversy by withholding ordination for the sake of the larger church’s peace and purity. People have already left over this and are likely to continue to do so. A few days ago I had a missive from someone who did so after 40 plus years of membership. Does that not bother you? . . . Should you not much more care for the opinions of those who are believers already? . . .

"I hear much talk of the church being a place of welcome, nurture, and inclusion for those who experience the temptations in view. I’ll not dispute that notion as such, for our Lord said 'come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest' (Matt. 11:28). But one can be welcomed and nurtured without being given leadership – as all novices, sinners, and children should – and there is something terribly awry when people talk about welcoming unbelieving outsiders while at the same time making brothers feel unwelcome. Driving out the existing sheep for the sake of attracting outsiders is a dubious measure, and I somehow doubt that is what our Lord desires.

"Whatever your intentions, the actual effect of your position and deeds has been such repulsion in the name of welcome and driving out in the name of inclusion. How is that loving? In this do you 'pay careful attention to yourselves and to ALL the flock' (Acts 20:28, emphasis mine)? Because it sure looks as though you are more concerned with prospective believers than actual ones, or with reaching one group (university students) that you forget the other sheep which you already have, not only there but throughout the denomination."

Enter Round Two: Some Remarks Concerning Missouri Presbytery’s Ordination of a Man Tempted to Break Leviticus 18:22

theaquilareport.com

 

[Ransom]

This may be one of the worst cases of miscomprehension I have ever seen.

And it's not even his worst case of miscomprehension.

 

[Bruh]

This may be one of the worst cases of miscomprehension I have ever seen.

I completely understood what he was saying. He basically said, who here put in the right situation can honestly say, no I would never do what Kenny Baldwin did?

And I can honestly say, no not me. (I know two negatives that’s how we talk in South Louisiana)

What exactly am I not understanding about what he said?

 

[AverageJoe]

Do you believe God can change a person from the inside out?

No, he doesn't. He's pretty much made that clear. I've noticed time and again that he refers to the church as "MY church." Funny...I thought it was God's.

 

[AverageJoe]

Yes.

But I also believe the born again can backslide.

Do you believe that it is possible that the child molester could backslide? And that it’s possible that it could happen to one of the children in said church?

Do YOU believe that a murderer could backslide? How about a serial adulterer? What about a felonious thief and con artist? How about a gay or lesbian? YOU seem to be one who would judge whether a person would backslide BEFORE it ever happens. The Bible tells us "let him that thinks he stands firm take care lest he fall into sin himself." And again, the Bible tells us to forgive and RESTORE such persons in a meek spirit.
I don't believe that your main concern is for the children or women of the congregation...you protest far too much which leads me to ask whether you entertain such wicked thoughts yourself. You ignore the scriptures regarding the issue... that's shameful.
Let me add that the Bible clearly states when Paul is addressing the Grecians concerning their addressing sin, "and such were some of YOU,"

 

[sword]

Kenny Baldwin: sexual misconduct.
Ravi Zacharias: sexual misconduct.
Steven Lawson: sexual misconduct.
Bill Hybels: sexual misconduct.
Jerry Falwell, Jr.: sexual misconduct.
Philip Yancey: sexual misconduct.
Joshua Harris: apostasy.
Jerry B. Jenkins: played poker.

While I strongly disapprove of gambling and recognize that it generally falls outside of evangelical approval, I think we can agree that entering a poker tournament isn't even in the same ballpark, morally speaking, as having an affair or sending explicit pictures to teenagers.

Tony Evans, too: he stepped down due to a confessed, though undisclosed, moral failure, which his church handled internally and apparently did not view as permanently disqualifying. Without knowing the details, that should settle the matter.

Remember that Jack Schaap once infamously screeched from the pulpit about teenage girls using their phones to sext boys--and then his own illicit affair with a teenager was revealed when someone inadvertently saw a text message from her on his phone. Shiflett's response smacks of "I thank thee that I am not like other men," more than a proper attitude of humility where his own sinful nature is concerned.

That list makes gambling seem like a benign and profitable activity.

 

[Bruh]

Do YOU believe that a murderer could backslide? How about a serial adulterer? What about a felonious thief and con artist? How about a gay or lesbian? YOU seem to be one who would judge whether a person would backslide BEFORE it ever happens. The Bible tells us "let him that thinks he stands firm take care lest he fall into sin himself." And again, the Bible tells us to forgive and RESTORE such persons in a meek spirit.
I don't believe that your main concern is for the children or women of the congregation...you protest far too much which leads me to ask whether you entertain such wicked thoughts yourself. You ignore the scriptures regarding the issue... that's shameful.
Let me add that the Bible clearly states when Paul is addressing the Grecians concerning their addressing sin, "and such were some of YOU,"

We can talk about all the sins you mentioned. We are talking specifically about man who have sexually assaulted a child.

I never “were” a child sexual abuser and never will be.

Since you seem to want to change the subject to a different sin. If Dave Hyles showed up in your church in repentance and remorse for his sins of the past. Would you be willing to have him as a member?

We can change the subject, no issues there. Just let me know.

We don’t even need to talk about Dave Hyles. Change the sin and give me a scenario.

And let’s see if I’m as judgmental as you’re accusing me of.

 

[sword]

If you are unable to distinguish between a man that cheated on his wife and a man that sexually abused a child there is something wrong with your th

I would never allow a convicted child molester be a member of my church. It appears you would. We see things much different. It’s not about forgiveness. It about protecting women and children.

What if that man sits in your church and lust after the children? Weird how not one person has answered this!

I’m starting to believe that some of the men have an issue with me and the guy who wrote the article because we are calling men like Pervert Kenny out for what he is.

Sometimes it hard to divide what I would do and what is Christlike. I know what I would do is not considered legal in any of the 50 states. If someone I know or care about was abused or taken advantage of things are not going to end well for either of us.