"Kinds" in Genesis 1. Does it correlate exactly with "species" in Darwinism?

[Smellin Coffee]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

Ezekiel 28 would indicate that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, not some time before it.

 

[ddgently]

Einstein discovered the relativity of time to speed, specifically of light.
He discovered that if one could move fast enough, time would cease to exist. To that, I say this:
1Jo 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Einstein got it wrong. There are many many physicist that believe that Time is not tied to the speed of Light. That Time exists apart from its "experience". Time goes on even in the absence of light. If you "TRAVEL"..... ever how FAST..... you're still are "traveling". You are MOVING. Don't insult my intelligence by saying you're not.

How about this: you're both wrong on this one. If you moved at the speed of light (which you can't, because no object with mass can reach it), time would not cease to exist. You would experience time normally. But if you looked at a stationary clock, it would appear not to be ticking. And if you were holding up a clock and a stationary observer looked at it, it would also appear not to be ticking to him.

So Einstein got it right (experimental confirmation out the wazoo on this one!), but you both seem to have misunderstood.

 

[prophet]

Einstein discovered the relativity of time to speed, specifically of light.
He discovered that if one could move fast enough, time would cease to exist. To that, I say this:
1Jo 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Einstein got it wrong. There are many many physicist that believe that Time is not tied to the speed of Light. That Time exists apart from its "experience". Time goes on even in the absence of light. If you "TRAVEL"..... ever how FAST..... you're still are "traveling". You are MOVING. Don't insult my intelligence by saying you're not.

How about this: you're both wrong on this one. If you moved at the speed of light (which you can't, because no object with mass can reach it), time would not cease to exist. You would experience time normally. But if you looked at a stationary clock, it would appear not to be ticking. And if you were holding up a clock and a stationary observer looked at it, it would also appear not to be ticking to him.

So Einstein got it right (experimental confirmation out the wazoo on this one!), but you both seem to have misunderstood.

What Einstein didn't grasp, being an unbeliever, is that God was revealing Himself to A.E., through his diligent research.  You study God's laws, creation hard enough, you see The Creator.

The lights God put in the sky speak to us of Him, see Psalm 19.

Anishinaabe

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

"Kinds" cannot possibly correlate exactly with "species" because the definition of "species" keeps changing whenever a change is needed to support the idea of evolution. 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

Ezekiel 28 would indicate that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, not some time before it.

If that were the case, then mankind had already reproduced before Adam's fall. How can their be kingdoms and religious sanctuaries if there were only 2 people roaming the entire earth?

 

[subllibrm]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

 

[christundivided]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

LOL. That was funny...

I would ask, how so?

 

[christundivided]

Einstein discovered the relativity of time to speed, specifically of light.
He discovered that if one could move fast enough, time would cease to exist. To that, I say this:
1Jo 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Einstein got it wrong. There are many many physicist that believe that Time is not tied to the speed of Light. That Time exists apart from its "experience". Time goes on even in the absence of light. If you "TRAVEL"..... ever how FAST..... you're still are "traveling". You are MOVING. Don't insult my intelligence by saying you're not.

How about this: you're both wrong on this one. If you moved at the speed of light (which you can't, because no object with mass can reach it), time would not cease to exist. You would experience time normally. But if you looked at a stationary clock, it would appear not to be ticking. And if you were holding up a clock and a stationary observer looked at it, it would also appear not to be ticking to him.

So Einstein got it right (experimental confirmation out the wazoo on this one!), but you both seem to have misunderstood.

Sure there is an object with mass that can travel faster than the speed of light. He is called God.

Since you've never traveled at the speed of light.... How in the world would you know EXACTLY what would happen? You certainly don't know if a clock would appear as "ticking" or not "ticking".

 

[subllibrm]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

LOL. That was funny...

I would ask, how so?

It is an attempt to "explain" the fossils or the appearance of time. I don't need those explained to me. I am comfortable with the young earth answer.

 

[christundivided]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

LOL. That was funny...

I would ask, how so?

It is an attempt to "explain" the fossils or the appearance of time. I don't need those explained to me. I am comfortable with the young earth answer.

Okay. I really don't see it exclusively as an attempt at explaining fossils. I personally see it was seeing the entirety of creation being older than YC allows. Essentially, I see our creation in YC terms but God has certainly done as He pleases long before we had anything to do with God.

 

[subllibrm]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

LOL. That was funny...

I would ask, how so?

It is an attempt to "explain" the fossils or the appearance of time. I don't need those explained to me. I am comfortable with the young earth answer.

Okay. I really don't see it exclusively as an attempt at explaining fossils. I personally see it was seeing the entirety of creation being older than YC allows. Essentially, I see our creation in YC terms but God has certainly done as He pleases long before we had anything to do with God.

Fair enough. It just doesn't seem worth much effort to prove it either way.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

The "Gap" is crap.  8)

LOL. That was funny...

I would ask, how so?

It is an attempt to "explain" the fossils or the appearance of time. I don't need those explained to me. I am comfortable with the young earth answer.

FWIW, Gap Creationism has been traced back to the 17th Century, supposedly espoused by theologian Simon Episcopius. Not sure how many fossil records had been recovered and studied at that point in history at which Episcopius was trying to reconcile with the Bible.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

Ezekiel 28 would indicate that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, not some time before it.

If that were the case, then mankind had already reproduced before Adam's fall. How can their be kingdoms and religious sanctuaries if there were only 2 people roaming the entire earth?

Ezekiel 28:13-15  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

 

[T-Bone]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

Ezekiel 28 would indicate that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, not some time before it.

If that were the case, then mankind had already reproduced before Adam's fall. How can their be kingdoms and religious sanctuaries if there were only 2 people roaming the entire earth?

Ezekiel 28:13-15  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Yeah, I didn't see how his statement had anything to do with your point!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe in the Gap Theory?

To me it explains the civilization on the earth during fall of Satan in Ezekiel 28. That chapter talks about the fall of a cherub from heaven because of his pride, violence (against whom?), profaned sanctuaries (who worshiped?), unrighteousness in trade (who was victimized?), etc. The result was he as exposed before kings (what kingdoms?) and was appalled by the peoples (what peoples?).

And with the earth covered in darkness in Genesis 1:2 (sign of God's judgment - hell, plague of Egypt, crucifixion), I wonder how the earth became that way. Most logical explanation to me is that there was a previous world on this planet which was ruled by the Cherub we now know as Satan and God destroyed his habitat and kingdom of that time.

Again, it is a theory but it seems most plausible to me, specifically with scientific evidences of an older earth that was inhabited by some creatures.

Ezekiel 28 would indicate that Satan was in the Garden of Eden, not some time before it.

If that were the case, then mankind had already reproduced before Adam's fall. How can their be kingdoms and religious sanctuaries if there were only 2 people roaming the entire earth?

Ezekiel 28:13-15  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Still doesn't answer the question about civilizations in Eden. Besides, isn't it possible God could have created a second Eden? Satan's Eden vs. Adam's Eden. Or perhaps Ezekiel was really talking about Eden, NC. Kidding aside, perhaps it was a symbolic name, perhaps it was a literal name. Ezekiel 31 calls Lebanon Eden centuries after Adam's removal so I believe that like chapter 31, Ezekiel is being symbolic in his use of the name.

Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him...

I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Still doesn't answer the question about civilizations in Eden. Besides, isn't it possible God could have created a second Eden? Satan's Eden vs. Adam's Eden. Or perhaps Ezekiel was really talking about Eden, NC. Kidding aside, perhaps it was a symbolic name, perhaps it was a literal name. Ezekiel 31 calls Lebanon Eden centuries after Adam's removal so I believe that like chapter 31, Ezekiel is being symbolic in his use of the name.

I always suspected (and still do) that there were civilizations pre-Adam.  Adam was the first man in the sense of the first man with God's breath of life, whatever that is (the soul?).  The civilizations outside of Eden would have been populated by men (and women) with a different make-up or nature. 

Why?  Because Cain said, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."  Who are these "anyones" he's talking about?  You might say Adam/Eve did a lot of begatting, but that doesn't jibe with the tone of what Cain is saying.  If all these other people were part of the family, they'd recognize Cain.  No, I suspect there were a lot of people on earth before Eden, Adam and Eve, and those people were not very nice, especially to outsiders. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=The Rogue Tomato]I always suspected (and still do) that there were civilizations pre-Adam.  Adam was the first man in the sense of the first man with God's breath of life, whatever that is (the soul?).  The civilizations outside of Eden would have been populated by men (and women) with a different make-up or nature. 

Why?  Because Cain said, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."  Who are these "anyones" he's talking about?  You might say Adam/Eve did a lot of begatting, but that doesn't jibe with the tone of what Cain is saying.  If all these other people were part of the family, they'd recognize Cain.  No, I suspect there were a lot of people on earth before Eden, Adam and Eve, and those people were not very nice, especially to outsiders. [/quote]

And thus how I reconcile both evolutionary theism and the Adamic nature of man.

 

[Mathew Ward]

If there were pre-Adamic people how did they die?

Was sin introduced by these pre-Adamic people?

 

[rsc2a]

Why must we assume that the possibility of eternal life for Adam applied to anything else in creation? Actually,  the assumption doesn't make sense even based on a narrative reading of the Genesis accounts.