Knock Knock, Who's there?
- Thread starter I'll be ready!
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When I was 11 years old, I had a card with verses from Romans. I told my Catholic friend, who was probably 9 at the time that we needed to talk.
I read him the verses on the card and he prayed.
We moved away. We reconnected whwn I was in high school and he went to mass on that Saturday.
Fast forward 45 years and we reconnected on facebook. He is a solid, vocal Christian and married a Christian girl.
Did I plant a seed? Maybe... maybe not. Did God draw him? Absolutely.
I read him the verses on the card and he prayed.
We moved away. We reconnected whwn I was in high school and he went to mass on that Saturday.
Fast forward 45 years and we reconnected on facebook. He is a solid, vocal Christian and married a Christian girl.
Did I plant a seed? Maybe... maybe not. Did God draw him? Absolutely.
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The Mennonite Brethren originated in Russia and eastern Europe, and like other Mennonites, they're Anabaptists. There's no relation to the Plymouth Brethren.
I spent my latter teen years in a Brethren chapel after my parents left the mainline church we had been attending. I left home to go to school and returned to a more traditional Baptist denomination (and ultimately my present church which is effectively "Baptist-lite"), but I still visit my parents' chapel when I'm home for a visit at Christmas. My roommate is Brethren, and his church and mine are on good terms; there's a fair bit of cross-pollenation of members in both directions.
The Plymouth Brethren are an English Nonconformist, evangelical denomination founded around 1820 in England. The two principal founders were George Mueller and John Nelson Darby.
Darby split over theological differences in and founded his own movement; so the Brethren are more or less split into the Open Brethren (Mueller's group) and the Exclusive Brethren (Darby's). The primary difference between the groups is that the Open Brethren are more open to engagement with the world, while the Exclusive Brethren tend to be more separated from worldly influences. Open Brethren are more likely to invite any professing Christian to participate in their meetings, particularly the Lord's Supper, while Exclusive Brethren are very separatist and not only practice strict closed communion, but will forbid fellowship with anyone outside of their group, even closing their meetings to non-members.
(Confusingly, there's a subgroup called the Closed Brethren, who also restrict the Lord's table to members or visitors from like-minded assemblies who bring a letter of introduction. But non-members are otherwise welcome to visit and participate in the meetings. Hence the Closed Brethren are actually part of the Open Brethren.)
What they all have in common is that they disregard traditional confessions and creeds (nuda Scriptura), and have no professional clergy. Local assemblies are autonomous and choose their own elders, generally with the elders themselves recognizing other men who meet the biblical qualifications and inviting them to become elders, but in some assemblies they're elected democratically. Some of the Exclusive Brethren have a top-down authority structure, but the Open Brethren have no central authority or denominatonal headquarters. It's not really a denomination so much as a network of like-minded assemblies.
Despite the rejection of formal creeds, Brethren are generally orthodox, typically (but not exclusively) premillennial and Dispensationalist (especially the ones following Darby), and are involved in missionary and evangelistic activity. My parents' little chapel supports a couple of missionaries overseas, and also holds weekly lunches for the community (with a "free store" where people can take donated clothing if they need it) as well as a yearly turkey dinner on Christmas day. (We always go on Christmas Eve to prep for that. It's fun.)
There are typically two services on a Sunday morning. The first is the breaking of bread (which my parents' chapel used to call "sharing time"). The chairs are arranged in a circle. There's no leadership; whenever someone is led by the Holy Spirit to speak (typically restricted to men, but not exclusively in all chapels), he may read and meditate upon a Bible passage, request a hymn or song, or pray. At the end of the hour the Lord's Supper is taken every week.
After a break (during which the chairs are probably arranged back in rows), there's the gospel meeting. This would be more familiar to a more traditional Protestant. There are songs and hymns, prayers, announcements and so forth, and then the sermon, which is given by one of the elders--or, frequently, a guest from another chapel whom the elders have invited.
Thanks for the good info, insight about Brethren. It's very fascinating. I did not know they had no Formal leadership. Interesting about the strict closed communion. I had friends that had gone to one but have not visited one.
That's interesting, City life VS country. I can imagine the groups such as JW can't just enter where they please. Especially now a days with crime and increased panhandling in larger urban areas. It's interesting that they set up an area with a rack for their Tracts. Also I imagine they enter train and bus stations to talk to folks.in a city like this one - dominated by highrise condos with secured access - it;s about the only way they can reach large numbers of people... ... ...and approaching people on the street would cause them to be seen no differently than the many panhandlers claiming to need food and asking for money.. .. ...it might also get them assaulted by those same people who would see them and accuse them of trying to move in on their turf..... ..
i have actually seen fights like that happen... one homeless beggar attacking another accusing him of stealing food out of his mouth by asking tourists for money on a part of the street he had claimed for his own.... the first time i ever saw that it was a real fight - but the second time it was a staged performance designed to draw the attention of tourists and allow pickpockets to sneak up behind them and steal their wallets........
other mission groups stage themselves out on the street too - but less consistently... and sometimes even standing by themselves.... and sometimes preaching or yelling at passersby..... jvws never yell or preach but if in doubt you can always tell which are which by the literature one or the other will always have on a stand next to them......
the jehovahs witnesses are also always in groups no smaller than 3.... and i;ve never seen them do or say anything that would provoke anger or violence from somebody....... ... but out in the regular neighborhoods they still go door to door... .... and from what i have heard they still stop when back out on the main sidewalk if they got a negative reception - and make a pretense of shaking the dust off their feet before moving on...... .
They gotta work their way towards whatever it is they're working for. Heaven already has its quota of 144,000 souls, no doubt, all the true believers and high ranking founders of the Watchtower Society.
I totally forgot about the 144,000 hehe. I have not even thought about that in a long time.
I actually have an old watchtower tract laying around in the basement it's like 50 years old. I shredded two newer ones in the last few months that came in the mail. I missed the opportunity to send a much better Tract. I was at a yard sale and bought a tin. It was stuffed full of Chick Tracts! My favorite!
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The sidewalk is public, and evangelism there is protected by the Charter of Rights, provided they don't use amplification outside of the noise bylaws.
They do go to bus stations, but as long as they stay outside the fare zone and don't impede traffic, the transit cops will generally leave them alone.
In both cases the JWs stand to one side and are passive--they don't say anything (apart from a polite "hello," in my experience) unless you approach them. They're behaving perfectly legally. Despite their well-known civic non-participation, they have a well-equipped legal department and know how to avoid breaking laws.
I'm really learning. What are JW's Civic Non participation. What do they not do?
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JWs maintain political neutrality, considering themselves citizens of heaven rather than any particular state. As a result, they won't:
- vote
- run for office
- join the military
- serve on a jury
- sing or stand for the national anthem
- swear oaths of loyalty to a nation
- celebrate national holidays (or, for that matter, religious holidays such as Christmas, or birthdays)
or other activities of that nature.
On the other hand, they will celebrate such milestones as wedding anniversaries, baby showers, graduation, or retirement, because these are good in themselves and don't have (supposed) pagan or nationalistic origins.
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no traditional train or bus stations here... .. the rapid transit rail is still under construction for the most part but i think it only has stops like the bus service - where you wait for the bus to show up... get on and show them your bus card or drop your fare into the collection device... ...and then ride it wherever it goes until you decide to get off.... ... busses run all around this island and the fare is the same no matter how far you ride..... ... (the old original train station downtown is still there but was abandoned years ago when the old rail service stopped....)
i have never seen jehovahs witnesses do anything on the bus....but i heard a preacher say years ago that riding the bus and moving around to talk to people that get on it would provide an excellent witnessing opportunity.. ..... i never saw anyone try that and right off the bat i could see some problems with it... . such as being accused of harassment if passengers didn;t appreciate being approached while on the bus... and then getting banned if the complaints were numerous enough.......
i have a free bus pass due to disability... and for many years i rode the bus everywhere if a bus ran to where i needed to go... ...(rode a bicycle or walked - 'ankle express' - everywhere else... ) .... but i seldom get on the bus any more due to the rude - obnoxious and downright nasty conditions that have become common on a city bus now...... it;s also badly over crowded...... ..i don;t know if evangelism on the bus would help that or not but it needs something.....
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i know at least one family that was split and forever damaged due to one segement of it turning jehovah witness or falling into other cult beliefs - and suddenly not allowing other family members to celebrate christmas with the children under cult control or even acknowledge birthdays.... ..
to some it may not sound like much but these were grandparents being told they couldn;t even send their grandchild a present in the mail or wish them a happy birthday..... ....many chances to make memories was lost and can never be recovered..... some don;t let children see or speak to other family members at all - out of fear that other family member might say something unsupportive of the cult doctrines....
cults damage familys and extended familys not even directly involved in that cult..... ... and with chronic cultists it never ends... .... they might be jehovahs witness for a couple of years and then switch to something else.. ... but it will always involve some cultist belief and their devotion to it will be fanatical....... what;s worse is they go on character assassination campaigns on any family member that doesn;t go along with them.... demonizing them with lies and false accusations. ...... the damage they do and have done cannot even be measured in this lifetime.. . ..it continues into generations not even born yet... ...
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