Leaving the IFB hurts.......

[LivingTemple]

I have been raised a IFB. Born into it, fed it, lived it, and was willing to die for it. The KJV was the ONLY version of the Bible, women wearing pants was a SIN, CCM was a perversion of God's sacred music, etc......then Christ saved me. He absolutely changed my heart and mind! Took my sin and is constantly conforming me into His image. I left a very successful position in the secular world and surrendered to His ministry. I was licensed and ordained, I've pastored, and am currently the Associate Pastor of a large IFB church where my father-in-law is Senior Pastor. My heart had changed, but my head was still very much entrenched in the IFB. Over the last few years His grace has changed my heart, mind, and doctrine to one that Christ, not man, is glorified. I'm leaving this position shortly to pastor a Convention/Association church at God's leading,  my differences with the IFB didn't hurt either. I am no longer KJV Only, my wife wears pants, I love CCM, and I believe in election. 
I  have spoken with my pastor/father-in-law concerning some of these issues. I have had an amazing relationship with my father-in-law. For so long he was a man I looked up to, respected, and loved. I could talk to him about anything, and thoroughly enjoy his company. I still love him, very dearly. But talking to him about my differences with the IFB, namely the modesty issue and very specifically the KJV was one of the biggest mistakes I've made.
To put it lightly, my heart is killing me. He was on my Ordination Council and he talked about having his name struck from the documentation, that I was a disappointment, that I had compromised on the fundamentals of scripture and was on the slippery slope to liberalism and further compromise. Were I not his son-in-law he would have fired me, this was just on the KJV issue. I tried to talk to him about historical evidence, but wouldn't have it. I knew the crazies that believe the manuscripts are obsolete and not inspired anymore, but I didn't think he genuinely believed it. He noted some of the preachers I enjoyed listening to and said I was being influenced by them. He named one prominent Calvinist(who I didn't begin listening to until I firmly believed in election), and said because he believed in election he was a heretic. I hadn't even told him yet that I believed in election, and he was saying that anyone who preaches that is a heretic......it was a knife to the heart. Because I believe how I do, I am a lost, Hell bound sinner preaching the anti-gospel.....and he didn't even realize he was saying that about me....the father of his grandchildren. My mother was bothered by the pants issue, because it was one we had stood upon for so long, but she got over it. The KJV issue, wasn't even a issue. It brought me to a point, that I would have rather lived a lie to them and then they just found out one day that I was a "Calvinist-Liberal-Heretic", which I don't consider myself completely any of those, especially a liberal or heretic. If he only knew not one but two of his "most trusted and godly" men were  Calvinist, I wonder if his position would still be the same.

I'm just hoping that there is someone still on here that has gone through something similar, and has some words of comfort or advice or something. I'm sure of myself, not cocky, but as far as where I stand, I know I stand with Christ and I will follow Him. But this is killing me. My mother-in-law called my wife and told her how dissapointed they were and accused her of "following" me to preserve our marriage. It's hurting them so bad.....do they not understand that it's killing US! To have been fed a lie they could have prevented, but refused to! My head is just spinning.....

 

[christundivided]

Your story sounds very much like my own. I'm not a Calvinist but I am certain no longer a IFB.

My advice would be.... forget about the jerks. I would never let my mother-in-law or father-in-law have anything to do with my relationship with my wife or with my God. Its NONE of their business. The sooner you get that through mind and to their ears...... the better. Same thing happened to me. EXACT same thing. They no longer bother me. I even have a pretty good relationship with them now but its taken a few years for us to agree on things outside of religion. Some of the worst people I have ever meet are IFB church members. WORST. I wouldn't give them another thought. I don't hate them but I certainly recognize what they are. I know this is hard on you but it shouldn't be. Take the hand of God and forget about everyone else. His love is majestic and fulfilling. Giving peace were none exists. I pray you find peace.

Maybe we can discuss Election one day at your convenience. Make some new friends and enjoy the life you have going forward with your wife. Her mom and dad can't live it for you and shouldn't even be trying. Give them the Gospel about how "what God has joined together..... let NO MAN" put asunder.

 

[Timothy]

I have been raised a IFB. Born into it, fed it, lived it, and was willing to die for it. The KJV was the ONLY version of the Bible, women wearing pants was a SIN, CCM was a perversion of God's sacred music, etc......then Christ saved me. He absolutely changed my heart and mind! Took my sin and is constantly conforming me into His image. I left a very successful position in the secular world and surrendered to His ministry. I was licensed and ordained, I've pastored, and am currently the Associate Pastor of a large IFB church where my father-in-law is Senior Pastor. My heart had changed, but my head was still very much entrenched in the IFB. Over the last few years His grace has changed my heart, mind, and doctrine to one that Christ, not man, is glorified. I'm leaving this position shortly to pastor a Convention/Association church at God's leading,  my differences with the IFB didn't hurt either. I am no longer KJV Only, my wife wears pants, I love CCM, and I believe in election. 
I  have spoken with my pastor/father-in-law concerning some of these issues. I have had an amazing relationship with my father-in-law. For so long he was a man I looked up to, respected, and loved. I could talk to him about anything, and thoroughly enjoy his company. I still love him, very dearly. But talking to him about my differences with the IFB, namely the modesty issue and very specifically the KJV was one of the biggest mistakes I've made.
To put it lightly, my heart is killing me. He was on my Ordination Council and he talked about having his name struck from the documentation, that I was a disappointment, that I had compromised on the fundamentals of scripture and was on the slippery slope to liberalism and further compromise. Were I not his son-in-law he would have fired me, this was just on the KJV issue. I tried to talk to him about historical evidence, but wouldn't have it. I knew the crazies that believe the manuscripts are obsolete and not inspired anymore, but I didn't think he genuinely believed it. He noted some of the preachers I enjoyed listening to and said I was being influenced by them. He named one prominent Calvinist(who I didn't begin listening to until I firmly believed in election), and said because he believed in election he was a heretic. I hadn't even told him yet that I believed in election, and he was saying that anyone who preaches that is a heretic......it was a knife to the heart. Because I believe how I do, I am a lost, Hell bound sinner preaching the anti-gospel.....and he didn't even realize he was saying that about me....the father of his grandchildren. My mother was bothered by the pants issue, because it was one we had stood upon for so long, but she got over it. The KJV issue, wasn't even a issue. It brought me to a point, that I would have rather lived a lie to them and then they just found out one day that I was a "Calvinist-Liberal-Heretic", which I don't consider myself completely any of those, especially a liberal or heretic. If he only knew not one but two of his "most trusted and godly" men were  Calvinist, I wonder if his position would still be the same.

I'm just hoping that there is someone still on here that has gone through something similar, and has some words of comfort or advice or something. I'm sure of myself, not cocky, but as far as where I stand, I know I stand with Christ and I will follow Him. But this is killing me. My mother-in-law called my wife and told her how dissapointed they were and accused her of "following" me to preserve our marriage. It's hurting them so bad.....do they not understand that it's killing US! To have been fed a lie they could have prevented, but refused to! My head is just spinning.....

Mark 13:13
"All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved."

John 13:34-35

 

[prophet]

Why do you expect someone to watch you walk away from where they stand,...where they thought you also stood,...and not think that you are wrong?  That is the reaction you should have expected, and should have prepared yourself for.  You are unbelievably arrogant, if you expect they who ordained you to support you, when you turn from they faith that they ordained you in.  Go your way, and what thou doest, do quickly.  Get your emotional support from your new found beliefs/bible and church.  Let your IFB family and friends be IFB, it's your fault that they thought you were one of them.

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[Sherryh]

I've been on the business side of life for over 10 years now. Some of my bosses were terrible and how I took it it shocks me to look back but when you have a mortage and people are depending upon you ....you can almost take anything. When I hear people say that they don't believe what they were taught when they were younger I want to say everyone changes sometimes not for the best. But as long as you don't change your core beliefs change on....I'm not the same person I was 29 years ago when I moved to south Florida. We were green when we started working for Pastor Mike Kalapp and he had so much love and patience for us. I would continue working there for 19 years which changed my life for the good. When I left in 2002 I started working for my husband and it's not all rosies but I wouldn't change a thing. There were times that dress standards would change where I would work but that's preference not something you would die for..............Many of the pastors that I have been under left the ministry in shame and it broke my heart but I never said I quit!!!We have had businesses close and people were left with no jobs and checks that didn't cash. I still have 6 uncashable checks...you pick yourself up and continue. I also believe God is in charge and He is a just God!! Make sure you are following God and not people because they will up and change on you in a heart beat. That's my pray for you.........

 

[christundivided]

Why do you expect someone to watch you walk away from where they stand,...where they thought you also stood,...and not think that you are wrong?  That is the reaction you should have expected, and should have prepared yourself for.  You are unbelievably arrogant, if you expect they who ordained you to support you, when you turn from they faith that they ordained you in.  Go your way, and what thou doest, do quickly.  Get your emotional support from your new found beliefs/bible and church.  Let your IFB family and friends be IFB, it's your fault that they thought you were one of them.

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Remember when I said forget the jerks?....

That includes this little "wannabe"!!!!

 

[Sherryh]

christundivided, are you talking about prophet because if you are shame on you........I'm not sure who you are and I'll end it there..........

 

[qwerty]

christundivided, are you talking about prophet because if you are shame on you........I'm not sure who you are and I'll end it there..........

I am with you sister...

 

[rsc2a]

Why do you expect someone to watch you walk away from where they stand,...where they thought you also stood,...and not think that you are wrong?

This is a reasonable question.

[quote author=prophet]That is the reaction you should have expected, and should have prepared yourself for. [/quote]

The reaction he should have expected? Perhaps.

The appropriate reaction? Not even remotely. Even if someone were to start believing heretical beliefs* (or even walk away from the faith altogether), that doesn't give a believer the right to start treating that person like trash.

[quote author=prophet]You are unbelievably arrogant, if you expect they who ordained you to support you, when you turn from they faith that they ordained you in. [/quote]

The Christian faith isn't defined by what translation one happens to read...

[quote author=prophet]Go your way, and what thou doest, do quickly. [/quote]

Did you seriously just compare the OP to Satan?

[quote author=prophet]Get your emotional support from your new found beliefs/bible and church.  Let your IFB family and friends be IFB, it's your fault that they thought you were one of them.[/quote]

So people aren't allowed to grow and change? Is love dependent upon the beliefs of the one receiving love?



* And music standards, dress standards, and translation preferences do not fall under the category of "heretical" topics.

 

[christundivided]

christundivided, are you talking about prophet because if you are shame on you........I'm not sure who you are and I'll end it there..........

I am with you sister...

Hi There qwerty! I see you still love me? I really appreciate the kindness you always show me!!!

 

[christundivided]

I've been on the business side of life for over 10 years now. Some of my bosses were terrible and how I took it it shocks me to look back but when you have a mortage and people are depending upon you ....you can almost take anything. When I hear people say that they don't believe what they were taught when they were younger I want to say everyone changes sometimes not for the best. But as long as you don't change your core beliefs change on....I'm not the same person I was 29 years ago when I moved to south Florida. We were green when we started working for Pastor Mike Kalapp and he had so much love and patience for us. I would continue working there for 19 years which changed my life for the good. When I left in 2002 I started working for my husband and it's not all rosies but I wouldn't change a thing. There were times that dress standards would change where I would work but that's preference not something you would die for..............Many of the pastors that I have been under left the ministry in shame and it broke my heart but I never said I quit!!!We have had businesses close and people were left with no jobs and checks that didn't cash. I still have 6 uncashable checks...you pick yourself up and continue. I also believe God is in charge and He is a just God!! Make sure you are following God and not people because they will up and change on you in a heart beat. That's my pray for you.........

He compared the guy to satan. Read the "prophet"'s response again.

 

[prophet]

Why do you expect someone to watch you walk away from where they stand,...where they thought you also stood,...and not think that you are wrong?

This is a reasonable question.

[quote author=prophet]That is the reaction you should have expected, and should have prepared yourself for.

The reaction he should have expected? Perhaps.

The appropriate reaction? Not even remotely. Even if someone were to start believing heretical beliefs* (or even walk away from the faith altogether), that doesn't give a believer the right to start treating that person like trash.

[quote author=prophet]You are unbelievably arrogant, if you expect they who ordained you to support you, when you turn from they faith that they ordained you in. [/quote]

The Christian faith isn't defined by what translation one happens to read...

[quote author=prophet]Go your way, and what thou doest, do quickly. [/quote]

Did you seriously just compare the OP to Satan?

[quote author=prophet]Get your emotional support from your new found beliefs/bible and church.  Let your IFB family and friends be IFB, it's your fault that they thought you were one of them.[/quote]

So people aren't allowed to grow and change? Is love dependent upon the beliefs of the one receiving love?

I didn't judge the changes made to be good or evil, only that it would be arrogant for anyone to expect others to understand, when they make a radical change.  This is especially true when it involves the one who ordained you into a faith that you say you now have grown away from. 
Regardless of whatever faith you once held, and the one you now hold to, and emotions aside, be mature enough to accept the fact that YOU CHANGED, not them.  They feel as put off by your rejection of their faith, as you do by their shunning.  That is the point I'm making to the OP.

* And music standards, dress standards, and translation preferences do not fall under the category of "heretical" topics.
[/quote]
It may be the opinion of the ordination committee, that departure from their articles of the faith, that the OP swore to, as a condition of ordination, constitutes heresy.  Most IFB consider Calvinism to be heresy.  Again,  general immaturity reigns, in the reactions of one who is supposed to be a bishop. 
I don't care,  personally, about the particulars.....only the principle.
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[prophet]

For the record....the comparison was to Judas Iscariot- the traitor. 

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[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]It may be the opinion of the ordination committee, that departure from their articles of the faith, that the OP swore to, as a condition of ordination, constitutes heresy.  Most IFB consider Calvinism to be heresy.  Again,  general immaturity reigns, in the reactions of one who is supposed to be a bishop. 
I don't care,  personally, about the particulars.....only the principle.[/quote]

Then either

a) most IFBers don't know the definition of heresy

or  b) most IFBers consider only the IFB to be the only legitimate church

or c) most IFBers don't know enough about the issue to have an (educated) opinion

or d) most IFBers don't consider pants, music preference, Calvinism, or translation preferences to be an issue of heretical magnitude.

I think I'll go with option c, followed by d.

Once you get into option a & b, you have to deal with a lot of hypocritical actions on the part of the IFB, particularly regarding preachers they esteem and hymns they sing (but it has definitely been done before!).



You don't think immaturity was exhibited by one of those doing the ordaining (a bishop nonetheless!) when he feels that he should attack his son-in-law for falling off the KJVO bandwagon, a bandwagon ironically that possibly could fit the definition of heresy?

 

[FreeToBeMe]

For the record....the comparison was to Judas Iscariot- the traitor. 

You're comparing him to Judas because he left the IFB church?  Good grief.  :

 

[prophet]

For the record....the comparison was to Judas Iscariot- the traitor. 

You're comparing him to Judas because he left the IFB church?  Good grief.  :

I was giving the other side of the argument.  The FIL feels betrayed. 
I left IFB. 
Next.

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[LivingTemple]

Thanks for the comments guys! They're all actually pretty constructive.
@Prophet: I understand and should have expected said reaction. Thank you for your honesty. I don't consider it jerkish when it is straight and to the point. Coming from the IFB you learn to take what comes off as outrageous and find some sincerity in it. I was not ordered to "swear" to their articles of faith, but to hold true to a ever faithful walk with Christ. Should my doctrinal philosophy ever wain from those taken during the council I should be willing to have my documents of ordination and license revoked by majority vote of the council. Each minister also reserves to have their name blotted from the documents if they find that I am unable to faithfully hold true to their doctrinal standard.

Open Statement: I didn't expect him to stand where I stand, much less accept it, but to at least talk it out. That didn't happen. I've spoken with the other ministers that were on my ordination council, as was required of me upon doctrinal change. Some don't agree, but don't find my positions heretical and others have faced the same exact questions, and, after study and prayer, have come to the same conclusions I have. None ever considered having my ordination voided by vote and none have expressed a desire to withdraw their signature from the documentation, including my pastor.

@rsc2a: I agree completely, and I think you were right on Prophet comparing me to Satan. At that point (Luke 22:3) Judas had been possessed  by Satan. Jesus wasn't talking to Judas, but Satan, just as he had with all other possessions, he was speaking to the possessing demon, not the possessed.
While we are all horribly corrupt sinners, I'm not possessed. I understand the "traitor" position though. I accused many a brother of it after they left the IFB or one of it's many denominational tenants.

@christundivided: Thank you for your support! My hurt doesn't come from doctrinal disturbance among believers, but from the strain it has created on my families relationship. As far as discussing election is concerned, I'm always game .

Open Statement: I'm wondering how many others would be willing to share their experiences in leaving the IFB? I'm not looking for hate filled vitriol for the denomination, as there are some deeply sincere and loving people within it. But to share how you left and what effect/affect it had on your relationships with family/friends within the IFB.

Thanks again you guys!

 

[christundivided]

@christundivided: Thank you for your support! My hurt doesn't come from doctrinal disturbance among believers, but from the strain it has created on my families relationship. As far as discussing election is concerned, I'm always game .

Open Statement: I'm wondering how many others would be willing to share their experiences in leaving the IFB? I'm not looking for hate filled vitriol for the denomination, as there are some deeply sincere and loving people within it. But to share how you left and what effect/affect it had on your relationships with family/friends within the IFB.

Thanks again you guys!

Thanks. I'll start a thread on election in the near future...

I once thought as you do. That once I left the IFB church that many of the good people I knew would still consider me a brother in Christ. A friend. A fellow companion. I soon found that was not the case. I am not trying to discourage you. Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm just warning you. Once you leave, it will be different. Those you once considered good friends will probably abandon you. You may retain a few but your strained relationship with your in-laws will affect others. They will not keep it themselves and I'd almost guarantee you be talked about often as being a "used-to-be". A sell out. It will happen. People you never dreamed would be saying it.... will say it. Prepare yourself for it. In the end it doesn't matter. To your own Master you stand or fall. Just DON'T let it affect your marriage. It will strain your marriage. Sooner or later, your wife is going to have an issue with missing her parents. That is to be expected. I would recommend to let her do what she feels comfortable doing. In the end its really about loving them and not about her lack of support for you.

When I called "prophet" a jerk... its because he probably does feel that way. That you are a "traitor". He may try to play it off as if he is just giving the other side..... but he truly feels that way. You don't JOKE about someone being a traitor. That isn't something you do. He shot from the "hip" and when you shot from the "hip".... you usually get to see how someone truly feels.

 

[prophet]

You called me a jerk, because you assumed that I was IFB, and was offended, like his FIL.  I am a jerk, so no harm done, but I'm not on his FIL's side.  And I was not calling him Satan, I clearly told you what I was saying...'betray, if you must'...don't try to read into it, you aren't a seer.  I wish him no ill will, and neither do I judge him.
It is what it is.

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[Sherryh]

prophet, Good answer it is what it is ..........I laughed out loud!!