Let's Get Back To Preaching by Lester Roloff

[T-Bone]

SMH

 

[.tim]

LOL, you are an absolute moron if you believe that nonsense. I have seen the abuse on more than one kid personally.

Spanking a child is not abuse.

Now as far as handcuffing a child to a pipe, I don't agree with that. But who knows if that really happened or not?

And if it did really happen, have you ever considered that there may have been a valid reason for doing that? Ever consider that maybe the girl was trying to kill herself, and therefore was a threat to herself and to others?

Why have handcuffs in the first place? I could see maybe a young girl in such a facility getting out of control ... many years ago I had to physically keep a depressed manic young woman from cutting herself with glass ... and I held her down until the police showed up. I held her down with my own arms so she wouldn't hurt herself since all she could do was uncontrollably try and cut herself, I didn't run out and purchase handcuffs.

 

[.tim]

Brother Roloff did not abuse any kids. He helped them. And helped them to get their mind right by giving them access to the infallible word of God,  Which is the King James Holy Bible.

But from what I read he didn't follow Romans 13:1.

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

 

[Recovering IFB]

We didn't whip, because it was illegal by then.
There are times when you absolutely have to restrain someone.

Boy, sounds like your a little disappointed there Miguel.

Cut this verse out of your Bible:

Pro 26:3
3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass,
and a rod for the fool's back.

Or, better yet, accept the fact that our Creator instructs us to beat people as a form of correction.

Sure, let government dole out the punishment, that's what Romans 13 is talking about. But for a church organization that's supposed to be dispensing the grace of our Savior, you're off base.
But seems to me you might miss putting it to the kids

Put your beer down, you've had enough.

No beer, bourbon tonight,... ;D

 

[Darkwing Duck]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

 

[Recovering IFB]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

Maybe children being abused where it is not the area of the church or church sponsored home to physically abuse children. And if that doesnt make your blood boiled, I dont know what will. I took offense to Mike's position that he  defended the Roloff's homes when in fact there was abuse at the homes. I don't see anywhere where the church should be in position to physically assault kids. If they are that violent they need to be in the government's care.

 

[prophet]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

I never knew him, so I couldn't do anything but speculate.
But I know the ministry, and it is not for the faint of heart.

Try loving someone who tells you for the first 3 months that you know them, that they hate you.
Try helping those who are plotting to kill you, because you represent authority to them.

It is possible, God is love.

Sometimes the Court has stipulations concerning a parolee.
There may be a list of things that, if they do them, constitutes violation, and they must be immediately remanded to state custody.

God's love has threat of punishment coupled with reward.
This is not an unrighteous principle.


Better topic would be one of why certain people are drawn to positions where they have others at a disadvantage. 
And:' Does the IFB culture lend to the "creating of monsters"?'

 

[prophet]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

Maybe children being abused where it is not the area of the church or church sponsored home to physically abuse children. And if that doesnt make your blood boiled, I dont know what will. I took offense to Mike's position that he  defended the Roloff's homes when in fact there was abuse at the homes. I don't see anywhere where the church should be in position to physically assault kids. If they are that violent they need to be in the government's care.

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

 

[Recovering IFB]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

Maybe children being abused where it is not the area of the church or church sponsored home to physically abuse children. And if that doesnt make your blood boiled, I dont know what will. I took offense to Mike's position that he  defended the Roloff's homes when in fact there was abuse at the homes. I don't see anywhere where the church should be in position to physically assault kids. If they are that violent they need to be in the government's care.

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

sent you a pm

 

[Recovering IFB]

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

great, if you feel beating them is justified, your wrong! They need the Gospel.  You are still seriously in the wrong for backing Roloff!!
You have my number, call me if you care to continue this.

 

[prophet]

From what I can see, prophet is not defending abuse to children. prophet is merely defending the supposition that children may be violent, insane or harmful to others. Recovering IFB seems to agree that it is possible for a child to be violent and a criminal but then seems to think a Christian home is not the answer but rather a government run institution. (Recovering IFB also manages to insult prophet in each response even though prophet has not attempted any defense of Lester Roloff as a person or his homes but merely the idea of such a home existing)

Maybe children being abused where it is not the area of the church or church sponsored home to physically abuse children. And if that doesnt make your blood boiled, I dont know what will. I took offense to Mike's position that he  defended the Roloff's homes when in fact there was abuse at the homes. I don't see anywhere where the church should be in position to physically assault kids. If they are that violent they need to be in the government's care.

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

sent you a pm

I received no p.m.

 

[prophet]

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

great, if you feel beating them is justified, your wrong! They need the Gospel.  You are still seriously in the wrong for backing Roloff!!
You have my number, call me if you care to continue this.

Pro 23:13-14
13 Withhold not correction from the child:
for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod,
and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

There were Judges in Texas then, just like the Judge in my cases, that included some kind of treatment as part of the sentence.
I was court ordered to rehab, and the State of Indiana was more than willing to turn over my care to the church.

I'm grateful to God, the Judge, and the Ministry of Jack Patterson, who worked for Roloff at some point, and Riverview Baptist ...all who risked much to restore me.

I have been involved for over 20 years, helping others.

There have been immature, prideful, and even evil people on the programs' staffs.  This is terrible, and, they have to be dismissed, or even prosecuted.

I had a young man in my dorm, for instance, who was a child molester....at 15...we warned him not to talk to the younger boys at church.  When he attempted to fraternize, we shipped him to a State facility, to protect all involved.

I used to bring homeless people to church,  street sleepers, from Chicago.  Somebody got attacked every week, just about.
There was Satanic possession involved.
There were drugs involved.
There was bitterness involved.
Everyone smelled bad.

It isn't all reasoning over a Drew Estate Tabak, and a single malt Scotch.  Sometimes nitty meets gritty.

great, if you feel beating them is justified, your wrong! They need the Gospel.  You are still seriously in the wrong for backing Roloff!!
You have my number, call me if you care to continue this.

 

[bruinboy]

Prophet has no idea what he is talking about. First of all, there were juveniles who went there voluntarily. I know of at least 3 from my old IFBx church, which BTW, wasn't very big.
One was in my wife's  class at a Christian school.  She knew the family for many years, before and after. (Almost 50 years now).  The boy was somewhat unruly, but had never been in any legal trouble at all. Unfortunately lester roloff, came to speak at the church.  He knew how to whip up a crowd for sure. This family, with an average IQ of single digits, ran right up to lr after the service and wanted to send their kid there. Of course, he was only too glad to oblige. He promised them a safe place for the boy and he would return to them a much better young man. (yes, I heard him say it). 
To make a long story short, the boy came back with bruises and talked about the beatings he received there. (yes I saw them). Since then, he has regressed in his behavior, married and divorced, abused his kids, in and out of jail, etc.
I can tell pretty much the same story about the other two. After all this, the pastor would not recommend that any other members send their kids there. He told me personally, "I wouldn't send my dog there, knowing what I know now." 
Now maybe these are the only 3 kids to go there voluntarily, and maybe the only 3 who came out worse than when they went in, but I suspect it would be more rare than 7 IRS agents hard drives going down at the same time.
That place is a hell hole and should have been shut down many years ago. 
Prophet, maybe you can share with us if you would send your son or daughter to one of these "christian" concentration camps.
   

 

[BALAAM]

Prophet has no idea what he is talking about. First of all, there were juveniles who went there voluntarily. I know of at least 3 from my old IFBx church, which BTW, wasn't very big.
One was in my wife's  class at a Christian school.  She knew the family for many years, before and after. (Almost 50 years now).  The boy was somewhat unruly, but had never been in any legal trouble at all. Unfortunately lester roloff, came to speak at the church.  He knew how to whip up a crowd for sure. This family, with an average IQ of single digits, ran right up to lr after the service and wanted to send their kid there. Of course, he was only too glad to oblige. He promised them a safe place for the boy and he would return to them a much better young man. (yes, I heard him say it). 
To make a long story short, the boy came back with bruises and talked about the beatings he received there. (yes I saw them). Since then, he has regressed in his behavior, married and divorced, abused his kids, in and out of jail, etc.
I can tell pretty much the same story about the other two. After all this, the pastor would not recommend that any other members send their kids there. He told me personally, "I wouldn't send my dog there, knowing what I know now." 
Now maybe these are the only 3 kids to go there voluntarily, and maybe the only 3 who came out worse than when they went in, but I suspect it would be more rare than 7 IRS agents hard drives going down at the same time.
That place is a hell hole and should have been shut down many years ago. 
Prophet, maybe you can share with us if you would send your son or daughter to one of these "christian" concentration camps.
 

All I can say about this is that Prophet does know what he is talking about. We have been there
!

 

[Recovering IFB]

I'm not besmirching  prophet's experience or work, but you can't compare discipline if your children to the abuse of kids, no matter what they have done. We discipline our children with love, after we do what we do, we love them, cry with them, pray with them. And if neccesary would give our lives for them. Could the same be said how you treat these kids?

 

[prophet]

Prophet has no idea what he is talking about. First of all, there were juveniles who went there voluntarily. I know of at least 3 from my old IFBx church, which BTW, wasn't very big.
One was in my wife's  class at a Christian school.  She knew the family for many years, before and after. (Almost 50 years now).  The boy was somewhat unruly, but had never been in any legal trouble at all. Unfortunately lester roloff, came to speak at the church.  He knew how to whip up a crowd for sure. This family, with an average IQ of single digits, ran right up to lr after the service and wanted to send their kid there. Of course, he was only too glad to oblige. He promised them a safe place for the boy and he would return to them a much better young man. (yes, I heard him say it). 
To make a long story short, the boy came back with bruises and talked about the beatings he received there. (yes I saw them). Since then, he has regressed in his behavior, married and divorced, abused his kids, in and out of jail, etc.
I can tell pretty much the same story about the other two. After all this, the pastor would not recommend that any other members send their kids there. He told me personally, "I wouldn't send my dog there, knowing what I know now." 
Now maybe these are the only 3 kids to go there voluntarily, and maybe the only 3 who came out worse than when they went in, but I suspect it would be more rare than 7 IRS agents hard drives going down at the same time.
That place is a hell hole and should have been shut down many years ago. 
Prophet, maybe you can share with us if you would send your son or daughter to one of these "christian" concentration camps.
 

I would never recommend that parents send their kids there. 
I wouldn't send mine.

But I would recommend a drunk, convict, druggie, prostitute, pimp, robber, or any other person in need of intervention seasoned with Christ.

I have seen many who were doomed to a life of perpetual trouble get saved, or helped to get on track at these homes, myself included.

I have seen Kids from Christian Homes turned over to someone else to deal with them, and it is almost always worse, as your testimony exposed.

There was a time, prior to Dr.Benjamin Spock, that ANY boarding school, military academy, boys/girls  home, etc., would beat the disobeyers.

There was a day when misdemeanors were dealt with by public whippings.

Here is another verse to cut out of your Bible:

Pro 20:30
30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil:
so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

 

[prophet]

I'm not besmirching  prophet's experience or work, but you can't compare discipline if your children to the abuse of kids, no matter what they have done. We discipline our children with love, after we do what we do, we love them, cry with them, pray with them. And if neccesary would give our lives for them. Could the same be said how you treat these kids?

Of course you love them.  You give them a chance, when society has banished them.
You feed them, clothe them, house them, pray for them, teach them the Word,  Lead them to the Lord, etc.

You know how many times I led someone to the Lord, who had physically assaulted me ?

This is no ministry for the faint of heart.

This is also no place for kids with a good home.  They don't belong there, and their parents have no right to abdicate their parental authority.
It is dangerous, it exposes them to evil and wickedness they had previously never imagined.

If they dont deserve jail, they dont belong in a rehab home.

 

[Walt]

I haven't listened to Lester Roloff message; it may be fine; it may not.  So many of those messages are ones in which the Scripture is just a launchpad for whatever the speaker wanted to unload that time; it has nothing to do with what the Scripture (or, for that matter, ANY Scripture) said.

I would suggest that you first listen to it before making a judgment call.

I plan to; I'm just saying that many of the big-name preachers seldom preach a Biblical message - they pick some verse and launch off into a 40-minute ramble of their own opinions and ideas.  This may be a fine message; I'll know more when I listen to it.

I have listed to hundreds of IFB messages, and I stand by the statement that "many" of them were not Biblical.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I haven't listened to Lester Roloff message; it may be fine; it may not.  So many of those messages are ones in which the Scripture is just a launchpad for whatever the speaker wanted to unload that time; it has nothing to do with what the Scripture (or, for that matter, ANY Scripture) said.

I would suggest that you first listen to it before making a judgment call.

I plan to; I'm just saying that many of the big-name preachers seldom preach a Biblical message - they pick some verse and launch off into a 40-minute ramble of their own opinions and ideas.  This may be a fine message; I'll know more when I listen to it.

I have listed to hundreds of IFB messages, and I stand by the statement that "many" of them were not Biblical.

I fear the greatest number are marginally Biblical and lean heavily towards traditionalism and personal opinion masquerading as God's Words.

 

[Walt]

I haven't listened to Lester Roloff message; it may be fine; it may not.  So many of those messages are ones in which the Scripture is just a launchpad for whatever the speaker wanted to unload that time; it has nothing to do with what the Scripture (or, for that matter, ANY Scripture) said.

I would suggest that you first listen to it before making a judgment call.

I plan to; I'm just saying that many of the big-name preachers seldom preach a Biblical message - they pick some verse and launch off into a 40-minute ramble of their own opinions and ideas.  This may be a fine message; I'll know more when I listen to it.

I have listed to hundreds of IFB messages, and I stand by the statement that "many" of them were not Biblical.

I fear the greatest number are marginally Biblical and lean heavily towards traditionalism and personal opinion masquerading as God's Words.

Yes; as I said above, many of the "preaching" was not expounded on God's Word, but using some Bible verse as a "springboard" or "launching pad" to discuss (with some ranting) personal opinions.

My friend told me about in his youth group, one young teen referred to a young lady as "hot" or "a fox" -- he said that there was a entire message preaching on the evils of such speech.  Oddly enough, when a church leader impregnated a young lady, there was much less fuss.  He said that the youth group incident sounded like, from the preaching, that the entire group was guilty of rampant immorality - he said it was "quite a message".