Let's hear some success stories

[Citadel of Truth]

It has already been mentioned how JAV "cursed" all those who dared leave the compound unless he (not God) called them to their next field of service (or in some cases, called them FROM their current field of service).

I know there are dozens of successful missionaries in the field today that graduated from OBC back in the heyday. I also know that many of these were "cursed" as well when they dared take themselves out from under the umbrella of WHBC.

Would you share some of these success stories of the ones who chose to leave in spite of the threat of a "curse" and who are now successfully serving the Lord in the ministry?

I'll start with the young man mentioned in another thread. Daniel Knight was bold enough to stand up against Vineyard's ridiculous demands and it cost him his job. The Lord has used him in a remarkable way as pastor in Coffeyville, KS.

I know there has to be dozens more like Daniel. It will be good for those who are still afraid of that curse to read these success stories.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Maybe I should have titled this "The Ones That Got Away!"

 

[Just me]

Without mentioning any names I know of many who left the compound to the threats and curses of JAV.  We were ordered not to have anything to do with them as they are out of God's will.  We were told how their lives would be destroyed and their kids would be on death row or drug rehab for the downhill spiral they all will take because of leaving the safety of WHBC's umbrella.

Well, I started watching those who left and found that not to be true in any way.  They were happy and living great lives from what I saw.  Sure some of them did not continue in "full time ministry" but their kids were turning out just fine and they were still married to their wives and doing well in society.  They were happy in life.  Actually they seemed more happy then the days I ran with them within the confines of the compound system.

It all started to open my eyes to what was really going on because I looked at the kids lives of the leaders of the IFBx world and said I do not want that!!

We ran away and are so much the better for it as are so many I have come in contact with since leaving years ago. 

And yes we had to continually pull the daggers out of our backs for several years after leaving

 

[AlvinMartinezVoice]

Justin Waters, the current deaf pastor, seems to be a success story.

Caleb Garaway, a famous evangelist, seems to be a success story. He's on a U.S. tour this summer coming to a Fundy church near you.

Bro McCarty and his family seem fine. Joel was a graduate from OBC and his family were the ones who invited my friend and his family to attend WHBC until turmoil.

What about these people:

Johnny Shaver
Jon Magas
Adam Stewart
Jon-Michael Magas
James Magas

 

[Just me]

Well there were several staff men who left that I am aware of: (I am sure there are several others)
Bro Blazer
Bro Crutchfield
Bro Harding
Bro Elliott
Bro Marshall
Bro Kelly
Bro Fisk
Bro Blanchard
Bro Knight
Bro Ferris
Bro Ross
Bro Crabtree
Bro Hazewinkle


Plus all the men who walked with this round of Tom's sexual misconduct

Some listed above went with JAV's blessing and some his curse.

I believe most are doing fine

 

[AlvinMartinezVoice]

Mickey Finn (Bro. Finn) is still there. Will he be going over to Greater Door soon?

 

[Walt]

Well there were several staff men who left that I am aware of: (I am sure there are several others)
Bro Blazer
Bro Crutchfield
Bro Harding
Bro Elliott
Bro Marshall
Bro Kelly
Bro Fisk
Bro Blanchard
Bro Knight
Bro Ferris
Bro Ross
Bro Crabtree
Bro Hazewinkle


Plus all the men who walked with this round of Tom's sexual misconduct

Some listed above went with JAV's blessing and some his curse.

I believe most are doing fine

Yes, but did Bro Ross leave with blessings?  I assume he did, or he wouldn't have come back to preach in defense of TV.

 

[Just me]

Well there were several staff men who left that I am aware of: (I am sure there are several others)
Bro Blazer
Bro Crutchfield
Bro Harding
Bro Elliott
Bro Marshall
Bro Kelly
Bro Fisk
Bro Blanchard
Bro Knight
Bro Ferris
Bro Ross
Bro Crabtree
Bro Hazewinkle


Plus all the men who walked with this round of Tom's sexual misconduct

Some listed above went with JAV's blessing and some his curse.

I believe most are doing fine

Yes, but did Bro Ross leave with blessings?  I assume he did, or he wouldn't have come back to preach in defense of TV.

He would fall on the blessing side.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Would leaving with JAV's blessing actually be a curse? Has any kool aid drinker left and had a successful ministry?

 

[Just me]

Would leaving with JAV's blessing actually be a curse? Has any kool aid drinker left and had a successful ministry?

Yes there have been a few that I am aware of. 

Bro. Porter until JAV called him off the field.  But today he is pastoring out in Califonia and doing well.
Bro Sisson is doinig fine as a missionary.
Bro Crabtree seems to be doing fine.
Bro Ferris is doing fine.

Ok, so there are not to many Kool Aid drinking staffers that left and are sucessful in the ministry

 

[TruthBearer]

Would leaving with JAV's blessing actually be a curse? Has any kool aid drinker left and had a successful ministry?

Yes there have been a few that I am aware of. 

Bro. Porter until JAV called him off the field.  But today he is pastoring out in Califonia and doing well.
Bro Sisson is doinig fine as a missionary.
Bro Crabtree seems to be doing fine.
Bro Ferris is doing fine.

Ok, so there are not to many Kool Aid drinking staffers that left and are sucessful in the ministry

Bro Ross also left with JAV's blessing and is doing well other than his recent health problems.

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post. 

 

[Just me]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

That is why I did not put Bro Ross on my list.  He spent 30 years as JAV's enforcer and I have ZERO respect for the dude.


But what really can those who left do in reference to jav/whbc?  I imagine just do not send their kids to OBC or Youth Conference is about all they can do.

 

[TruthBearer]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I know Ross was loyal to the Vineyard's and would throw people under the bus to save his own butt. However he was very reluctant to come to Tommy Boy's defence and I don't think he models his current church after WH. His church had a lot of problems, some not much different than what Tommy Boy is going through now and the previous pastor committed suicide as a way out of his troubles.

I am not a fan of Ross but I think since he is no longer under the authority of the Vineyards he is running his church with more compassion towards his members than JAV or Tommy Boy. I could be wrong but from what I have seen and heard there is an element of hope with him.

That is why I did not put Bro Ross on my list.  He spent 30 years as JAV's enforcer and I have ZERO respect for the dude.


But what really can those who left do in reference to jav/whbc?  I imagine just do not send their kids to OBC or Youth Conference is about all they can do.

 

[Just me]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I know Ross was loyal to the Vineyard's and would throw people under the bus to save his own butt. However he was very reluctant to come to Tommy Boy's defence and I don't think he models his current church after WH. His church had a lot of problems, some not much different than what Tommy Boy is going through now and the previous pastor committed suicide as a way out of his troubles.

I am not a fan of Ross but I think since he is no longer under the authority of the Vineyards he is running his church with more compassion towards his members than JAV or Tommy Boy. I could be wrong but from what I have seen and heard there is an element of hope with him.

That is why I did not put Bro Ross on my list.  He spent 30 years as JAV's enforcer and I have ZERO respect for the dude.


But what really can those who left do in reference to jav/whbc?  I imagine just do not send their kids to OBC or Youth Conference is about all they can do.

I will respectfully disagree with you on this point with reference to Ross.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I know Ross...and I don't think he models his current church after WH...he is running his church with more compassion towards his members than JAV or Tommy Boy.

I sincerely hope you are right. However I have sat in his impeccably clean office and heard him criticize pastors and churches who are "not like us" his words not mine. When I heard him use those exact words my thought was "praise God they're not like us".

Are there men out there that do model their church after WHBC and treat their members like these members are treated? I know several OBC grads are now pastors.   

 

[JustABigKid]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I know Ross was loyal to the Vineyard's and would throw people under the bus to save his own butt. However he was very reluctant to come to Tommy Boy's defence and I don't think he models his current church after WH. His church had a lot of problems, some not much different than what Tommy Boy is going through now and the previous pastor committed suicide as a way out of his troubles.

I am not a fan of Ross but I think since he is no longer under the authority of the Vineyards he is running his church with more compassion towards his members than JAV or Tommy Boy. I could be wrong but from what I have seen and heard there is an element of hope with him.

That is why I did not put Bro Ross on my list.  He spent 30 years as JAV's enforcer and I have ZERO respect for the dude.


But what really can those who left do in reference to jav/whbc?  I imagine just do not send their kids to OBC or Youth Conference is about all they can do.

He may have been reluctant but he did it anyway and because of that many people who may have gotten out now think everything is ok and that is CRAP!!!!!

6 months ago I would never say things like this but true colors rise to the top. If he didn't think it was right or had doubts he should not have done it period!

 

[Just me]

He may have been reluctant but he did it anyway and because of that many people who may have gotten out now think everything is ok and that is CRAP!!!!!

6 months ago I would never say things like this but true colors rise to the top. If he didn't think it was right or had doubts he should not have done it period!

You are correct on Bro Ross.  How many less would WHBC have in attendance today if not for JAV getting Bro. Ross to come to the resuce?

I do not care how reluctant he was.  His doing the deed verifies he is still JAV's enforcer!!

No respect for him in my books

 

[TruthBearer]

It is possible that they are doing well after left because the one of the reasons they left was because they didn't agree with the way things were being done at WHBC.  If that is the case they left with blessings because they didn't vocalize their thoughts.

So they just snuck out the back door? Can we really say they are doing well if they turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings at WHBC? It seems like they have the mindset "As long as I get away I don't care what happens to the rest of the people". I have a very difficult time mustering any respect for men with this philosophy. That begs another question but I'll write it in another post.

I know Ross was loyal to the Vineyard's and would throw people under the bus to save his own butt. However he was very reluctant to come to Tommy Boy's defence and I don't think he models his current church after WH. His church had a lot of problems, some not much different than what Tommy Boy is going through now and the previous pastor committed suicide as a way out of his troubles.

I am not a fan of Ross but I think since he is no longer under the authority of the Vineyards he is running his church with more compassion towards his members than JAV or Tommy Boy. I could be wrong but from what I have seen and heard there is an element of hope with him.

That is why I did not put Bro Ross on my list.  He spent 30 years as JAV's enforcer and I have ZERO respect for the dude.


But what really can those who left do in reference to jav/whbc?  I imagine just do not send their kids to OBC or Youth Conference is about all they can do.

He may have been reluctant but he did it anyway and because of that many people who may have gotten out now think everything is ok and that is CRAP!!!!!

6 months ago I would never say things like this but true colors rise to the top. If he didn't think it was right or had doubts he should not have done it period!

That is one of his faults, and the reason he would throw his friends under the bus. He was not as courageous as he let on when it came to the Vineyard's. From what I hear he regretted coming to OKC to preach for Tommy Boy. He even told Tommy Boy it was his problem and he had his own church to tend too.

Why did he do it? Who knows that is something only he can answer. But from what I have seen and has been relayed to me he himself went against his better judgement. He just needs to grow a pair.

With all that being said that is why I think there could be some hope, he senses there is something wrong going on but isn't man enough to call the Vineyard's out.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

With all that being said that is why I think there could be some hope, he senses there is something wrong going on but isn't man enough to call the Vineyard's out.

Do you honestly think that is going to change anytime soon?

He's not the only Texan that falls into this category. How about Dodson or Way? Are they still swallowing everything that comes out of WHBC?