Manipulation or Encouragement?

[Walt]

I've spent a lot of time under heavily manipulative "preachers" (or "evangelists"), and I have very little tolerance for any "preacher" than relies on manipulation to get results.  Having said that...

A friend came over a few days ago, and we took a walk to have a "talk" - he told me that, last week, his church had an evangelist in from Sun-Wed; as he told it, it was a typical evangelist meeting (Sun was all about inviting people back for the other meetings; Mon (which I attended) was a basic salvation message, but decent; Tue was about some duties, but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

I only went the one night - it didn't seem that manipulative, but the description of Wed reminded me of some of the worst manipulation that I remember from earlier in my life.

I'm sure that the evangelist would have a good excuse; that he was only trying to get people to give, or pray, or go soul-winning, etc.

Where does one draw the line at mere encouragement and out-and-out manipulation?

Our current pastor is not a manipulative person; he presents what he believes the Bible says, but leaves it up tho the Holy Spirit working in lives. He has never tried  to play on people's emotions in order to get a large crowd at the altars. I respect him greatly for that.

 

[Ransom]

but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

"Must"?

Or else what?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Manipulation.

People who are confident in their leadership and God's blessing on their actions don't need to use coercive language.  That is playing the Holy Spirit.  If it's of God, it will come to pass, if not, it will come to nought.

 

[FSSL]

Sounds like a tactic of another evangelist (now college president) I know. Their goal is to get everyone down the aisle. They continue to refine their pleadings until everyone is down the aisle.

I sat behind our youth group and one of our teens almost went (due to the manipulation). I whispered behind her "Don't do it!" She didn't and the evangelist was not very pleased.

We finally convinced our pastor to run our own camp program.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Guilt, fear and intimidation are 3 hallmark manipulitive tactics.

 

[FSSL]

... relying on the group lemming dynamic

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

There's something very poetic about this...

 

[praise_yeshua]

The "evangelist" preaching wanted the pastors in attendance to invite him for more meetings.

"Evangelists" pander too...

They also lie...

Most of them will say....

I don't know you pastor. Haven't talked to him more than three minutes about anything and boom.......the he starts preaching against things the pastor doesn't have the courage to say.  Many of them lie like this.

 

[Ransom]

There's something very poetic about this...

Q: How do you know Deadfool is ignoring you?

A: Wait five minutes, and he'll remind you!

 

[FSSL]

There's something very poetic about this...

The picture shall be titled "The Poetical Darkness of Ignorance"

 

[FSSL]

So, if The Rogue Tomato was banned, he would see the same stuff. Why stick around, Tomato?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

So, if The Rogue Tomato was banned, he would see the same stuff. Why stick around, Tomato?

For the "good people" on the fff.
And to remind the rest of us we're on ignore!
But, I still like Mater...and often find him funny....in a ha ha way.  ;D

 

[Walt]

but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

"Must"?

Or else what?

Based on what I was told, if you are saved, there is no excuse for not leaving the seat to go to the altar or to approach the pastor... basically, implying that people who stayed in the pews were either (a) elderly who couldn't move well, or (b) not really saved or serious about their salvation.

 

[Ransom]

Based on what I was told, if you are saved, there is no excuse for not leaving the seat to go to the altar or to approach the pastor... basically, implying that people who stayed in the pews were either (a) elderly who couldn't move well, or (b) not really saved or serious about their salvation.

So to summarize: "Or else you might be poorly thought of by the itinerant mog who won't remember your name and you may never meet again."

Oh, the horror! the horror!

 

[BALAAM]

I've spent a lot of time under heavily manipulative "preachers" (or "evangelists"), and I have very little tolerance for any "preacher" than relies on manipulation to get results.  Having said that...

A friend came over a few days ago, and we took a walk to have a "talk" - he told me that, last week, his church had an evangelist in from Sun-Wed; as he told it, it was a typical evangelist meeting (Sun was all about inviting people back for the other meetings; Mon (which I attended) was a basic salvation message, but decent; Tue was about some duties, but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

I only went the one night - it didn't seem that manipulative, but the description of Wed reminded me of some of the worst manipulation that I remember from earlier in my life.

I'm sure that the evangelist would have a good excuse; that he was only trying to get people to give, or pray, or go soul-winning, etc.

Where does one draw the line at mere encouragement and out-and-out manipulation?

Our current pastor is not a manipulative person; he presents what he believes the Bible says, but leaves it up tho the Holy Spirit working in lives. He has never tried  to play on people's emotions in order to get a large crowd at the altars. I respect him greatly for that.

I still remember (and it still bothers me) a God Save America rally or revival or whatever that I went to almost thirty years ago. My wife and I were in some kind of huge fight over something or other and couldn't even hardly speak to each other. They had one of those patented Randy Taylor invitations that took about 45 minutes where he had persuaded nearly everyone to come to the altar. We did too, just because we were about the only ones left in the pew and I still remember my wife looking at me and asking, "What are we doing up here?" Didn't have an answer and I promised myself I would never again be manipulated just to stroke the speakers ego.  (still married by the way)

 

[BALAAM]

I've spent a lot of time under heavily manipulative "preachers" (or "evangelists"), and I have very little tolerance for any "preacher" than relies on manipulation to get results.  Having said that...

A friend came over a few days ago, and we took a walk to have a "talk" - he told me that, last week, his church had an evangelist in from Sun-Wed; as he told it, it was a typical evangelist meeting (Sun was all about inviting people back for the other meetings; Mon (which I attended) was a basic salvation message, but decent; Tue was about some duties, but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

I only went the one night - it didn't seem that manipulative, but the description of Wed reminded me of some of the worst manipulation that I remember from earlier in my life.

I'm sure that the evangelist would have a good excuse; that he was only trying to get people to give, or pray, or go soul-winning, etc.

Where does one draw the line at mere encouragement and out-and-out manipulation?

Our current pastor is not a manipulative person; he presents what he believes the Bible says, but leaves it up tho the Holy Spirit working in lives. He has never tried  to play on people's emotions in order to get a large crowd at the altars. I respect him greatly for that.

I still remember (and it still bothers me) a God Save America rally or revival or whatever that I went to almost thirty years ago. My wife and I were in some kind of huge fight over something or other and couldn't even hardly speak to each other. They had one of those patented Randy Taylor invitations that took about 45 minutes where he had persuaded nearly everyone to come to the altar. We did too, just because we were about the only ones left in the pew and I still remember my wife looking at me and asking, "What are we doing up here?" Didn't have an answer and I promised myself I would never again be manipulated just to stroke the speakers ego.  (still married by the way)

You know you can market yourself better if you can claim that the altars were filled and every soul in the congregation came forward to get "Right with God"!

 

[prophet]

I've spent a lot of time under heavily manipulative "preachers" (or "evangelists"), and I have very little tolerance for any "preacher" than relies on manipulation to get results.  Having said that...

A friend came over a few days ago, and we took a walk to have a "talk" - he told me that, last week, his church had an evangelist in from Sun-Wed; as he told it, it was a typical evangelist meeting (Sun was all about inviting people back for the other meetings; Mon (which I attended) was a basic salvation message, but decent; Tue was about some duties, but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

I only went the one night - it didn't seem that manipulative, but the description of Wed reminded me of some of the worst manipulation that I remember from earlier in my life.

I'm sure that the evangelist would have a good excuse; that he was only trying to get people to give, or pray, or go soul-winning, etc.

Where does one draw the line at mere encouragement and out-and-out manipulation?

Our current pastor is not a manipulative person; he presents what he believes the Bible says, but leaves it up tho the Holy Spirit working in lives. He has never tried  to play on people's emotions in order to get a large crowd at the altars. I respect him greatly for that.

I still remember (and it still bothers me) a God Save America rally or revival or whatever that I went to almost thirty years ago. My wife and I were in some kind of huge fight over something or other and couldn't even hardly speak to each other. They had one of those patented Randy Taylor invitations that took about 45 minutes where he had persuaded nearly everyone to come to the altar. We did too, just because we were about the only ones left in the pew and I still remember my wife looking at me and asking, "What are we doing up here?" Didn't have an answer and I promised myself I would never again be manipulated just to stroke the speakers ego.  (still married by the way)

I promised God this, in high school, back when HBHS went to school camp every Fall.

I was in an extended invitation, just about every body went down, and I was left in my seat.

I went to see the preacher afterwards.
I asked him what was wrong with me, because God didn't tell me to go down the aisle.

He seemed like he had no idea what to say to me at all.

Years later, I found out that he wasn't even saved, was an addict, and likely a sex predator.

I promised God that I wouldn't go down an aisle unless He told me to do so.

He led me to make that decision, in a room full of B.S.
I've since been led to many decisions, and have often been in a room full of B.S.



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[Edwards]

I am as stubborn as a mule I guess.  I won't even clap my hands to the music if some song leader says we should.  If I clap my hands, go to an altar or whatever it is because I want/need to - not because someone says I should.  I remember being at a Catholic wedding and every one was kneeling (with their statues and various  idols scattered throughout the building) and I sat as tall as I possibly could.  When the Spirit of God works, people will flee to Christ and they don't have to be coerced.  What this evangelist was doing was for himself - it had nothing to do with the gospel or "getting right with God."

 

[Walt]

I've spent a lot of time under heavily manipulative "preachers" (or "evangelists"), and I have very little tolerance for any "preacher" than relies on manipulation to get results.  Having said that...

A friend came over a few days ago, and we took a walk to have a "talk" - he told me that, last week, his church had an evangelist in from Sun-Wed; as he told it, it was a typical evangelist meeting (Sun was all about inviting people back for the other meetings; Mon (which I attended) was a basic salvation message, but decent; Tue was about some duties, but Wed (from what he said) was incredibly manipulative: if you claimed to be saved, you MUST come forward and pray, and take the pastor's hand and tell him how much you are 100% behind what he is trying to do.

I only went the one night - it didn't seem that manipulative, but the description of Wed reminded me of some of the worst manipulation that I remember from earlier in my life.

I'm sure that the evangelist would have a good excuse; that he was only trying to get people to give, or pray, or go soul-winning, etc.

Where does one draw the line at mere encouragement and out-and-out manipulation?

Our current pastor is not a manipulative person; he presents what he believes the Bible says, but leaves it up tho the Holy Spirit working in lives. He has never tried  to play on people's emotions in order to get a large crowd at the altars. I respect him greatly for that.

I still remember (and it still bothers me) a God Save America rally or revival or whatever that I went to almost thirty years ago. My wife and I were in some kind of huge fight over something or other and couldn't even hardly speak to each other. They had one of those patented Randy Taylor invitations that took about 45 minutes where he had persuaded nearly everyone to come to the altar. We did too, just because we were about the only ones left in the pew and I still remember my wife looking at me and asking, "What are we doing up here?" Didn't have an answer and I promised myself I would never again be manipulated just to stroke the speakers ego.  (still married by the way)

I promised God this, in high school, back when HBHS went to school camp every Fall.

I was in an extended invitation, just about every body went down, and I was left in my seat.

I went to see the preacher afterwards.
I asked him what was wrong with me, because God didn't tell me to go down the aisle.

He seemed like he had no idea what to say to me at all.

Years later, I found out that he wasn't even saved, was an addict, and likely a sex predator.

I promised God that I wouldn't go down an aisle unless He told me to do so.

He led me to make that decision, in a room full of B.S.
I've since been led to many decisions, and have often been in a room full of B.S.

Staying in your seat (especially in high school) when everyone else goes forward is hard.

Any leaders present probably marked you as hard-hearted and a "troublemaker"