Matthew 13:24....the world, or the church?

ALAYMAN

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The parable of the wheat and tares, does it concern the world, or the church?


Mat 13:24  Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26  But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28  He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 
afternoon crowd bump
 
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)
 
Dunkard said:
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)

I guess ALAYMAN didn't have ears to hear.  Either that, or he doesn't know what context means, so he doesn't bother to read more than a few isolated verses. 

 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Dunkard said:
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)

Albert Barnes
Mat_13:30
Let both grow together - They would not spoil the true wheat, and in time of harvest it would be easy to separate them.
Our Saviour teaches us here:
1. That hypocrites and deceived persons must be expected in the church.
2. That this is the work of the enemy of man. They are not the work of Christianity any more than traitors are of patriotism, or counterfeiters are of the proper effect of legislating about money. They belong to the world, and hypocrisy is only one form of sin. The Christian religion never “made” a hypocrite, nor is there a hypocrite on the earth whose principles and practice it does not condemn.
3. That all hope of removing them entirely would be vain.
4. That an “attempt” to remove them altogether would injure real Christianity, by causing excitements, discord, and hard feelings even among Christians.
5. That Christ will himself separate them at the proper time. There is no doubt that it is the duty of the church to keep itself pure, and to cut off gross and manifest offenders, 1Co_5:4-5; but the Saviour refers here to those who may be “suspected” of hypocrisy, but against whom it cannot be proved; to those who so successfully imitate Christians as to make it difficult or impossible for man to distinguish them.

I guess ALAYMAN didn't have ears to hear.  Either that, or he doesn't know what context means, so he doesn't bother to read more than a few isolated verses.


I could cite dozens of others, but as usual with you, it ain't worth my effort.
 
ALAYMAN said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
Dunkard said:
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)

Albert Barnes
Mat_13:30
Let both grow together - They would not spoil the true wheat, and in time of harvest it would be easy to separate them.
Our Saviour teaches us here:
1. That hypocrites and deceived persons must be expected in the church.
2. That this is the work of the enemy of man. They are not the work of Christianity any more than traitors are of patriotism, or counterfeiters are of the proper effect of legislating about money. They belong to the world, and hypocrisy is only one form of sin. The Christian religion never “made” a hypocrite, nor is there a hypocrite on the earth whose principles and practice it does not condemn.
3. That all hope of removing them entirely would be vain.
4. That an “attempt” to remove them altogether would injure real Christianity, by causing excitements, discord, and hard feelings even among Christians.
5. That Christ will himself separate them at the proper time. There is no doubt that it is the duty of the church to keep itself pure, and to cut off gross and manifest offenders, 1Co_5:4-5; but the Saviour refers here to those who may be “suspected” of hypocrisy, but against whom it cannot be proved; to those who so successfully imitate Christians as to make it difficult or impossible for man to distinguish them.

I guess ALAYMAN didn't have ears to hear.  Either that, or he doesn't know what context means, so he doesn't bother to read more than a few isolated verses.


I could cite dozens of others, but as usual with you, it ain't worth my effort.

Wow.  So Albert Barnes can't read more than a few isolated verses at a time, either. 

So now we have an explanation by Albert Barnes, and we have an explanation by Jesus.

Let's see... Albert Barnes... Jesus.... Albert Barnes.... Jesus... oh, it's so hard to choose.
 
ALAYMAN said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
Dunkard said:
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)

Albert Barnes
Mat_13:30
Let both grow together - They would not spoil the true wheat, and in time of harvest it would be easy to separate them.
Our Saviour teaches us here:
1. That hypocrites and deceived persons must be expected in the church.
2. That this is the work of the enemy of man. They are not the work of Christianity any more than traitors are of patriotism, or counterfeiters are of the proper effect of legislating about money. They belong to the world, and hypocrisy is only one form of sin. The Christian religion never “made” a hypocrite, nor is there a hypocrite on the earth whose principles and practice it does not condemn.
3. That all hope of removing them entirely would be vain.
4. That an “attempt” to remove them altogether would injure real Christianity, by causing excitements, discord, and hard feelings even among Christians.
5. That Christ will himself separate them at the proper time. There is no doubt that it is the duty of the church to keep itself pure, and to cut off gross and manifest offenders, 1Co_5:4-5; but the Saviour refers here to those who may be “suspected” of hypocrisy, but against whom it cannot be proved; to those who so successfully imitate Christians as to make it difficult or impossible for man to distinguish them.


I guess ALAYMAN didn't have ears to hear.  Either that, or he doesn't know what context means, so he doesn't bother to read more than a few isolated verses.

I could cite dozens of others, but as usual with you, it ain't worth my effort.

Oooookkkaaaaay?
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
ALAYMAN said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
Dunkard said:
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Mat 13:36-43)

Albert Barnes
Mat_13:30
Let both grow together - They would not spoil the true wheat, and in time of harvest it would be easy to separate them.
Our Saviour teaches us here:
1. That hypocrites and deceived persons must be expected in the church.
2. That this is the work of the enemy of man. They are not the work of Christianity any more than traitors are of patriotism, or counterfeiters are of the proper effect of legislating about money. They belong to the world, and hypocrisy is only one form of sin. The Christian religion never “made” a hypocrite, nor is there a hypocrite on the earth whose principles and practice it does not condemn.
3. That all hope of removing them entirely would be vain.
4. That an “attempt” to remove them altogether would injure real Christianity, by causing excitements, discord, and hard feelings even among Christians.
5. That Christ will himself separate them at the proper time. There is no doubt that it is the duty of the church to keep itself pure, and to cut off gross and manifest offenders, 1Co_5:4-5; but the Saviour refers here to those who may be “suspected” of hypocrisy, but against whom it cannot be proved; to those who so successfully imitate Christians as to make it difficult or impossible for man to distinguish them.

I guess ALAYMAN didn't have ears to hear.  Either that, or he doesn't know what context means, so he doesn't bother to read more than a few isolated verses.


I could cite dozens of others, but as usual with you, it ain't worth my effort.

Wow.  So Albert Barnes can't read more than a few isolated verses at a time, either. 

So now we have an explanation by Albert Barnes, and we have an explanation by Jesus.

Let's see... Albert Barnes... Jesus.... Albert Barnes.... Jesus... oh, it's so hard to choose.

Ummm, Mr. Tomato, I didn't take the time to research the threads, but are you not one of the folks here who quote certain statistics that claim a rather large percentage of regular church-goers are not saved?  In the quoted passages, wouldn't Jesus have also been talking about people who attend church but are not really His?  He wouldn't consider those folks as children of the kingdom, would He?

It seems to me that Jesus is talking about a specific group of people...the children of the wicked one.  That would include the people who do not claim Christ as Savior, but would it not also include people who are simply "playing church"?

It sounds to me that Mr. Barnes is speaking to this very issue...some of the children of the wicked one are faithful church attendees/members.    If so, Alayman, in context of the scriptures, quoted Mr. Barnes properly.
 
lnf said:
Ummm, Mr. Tomato, I didn't take the time to research the threads, but are you not one of the folks here who quote certain statistics that claim a rather large percentage of regular church-goers are not saved? 

Absolutely.  And it's true.  That doesn't mean this is what Jesus was talking about. 

lnf said:
In the quoted passages, wouldn't Jesus have also been talking about people who attend church but are not really His?  He wouldn't consider those folks as children of the kingdom, would He?

It seems to me that Jesus is talking about a specific group of people...the children of the wicked one.  That would include the people who do not claim Christ as Savior, but would it not also include people who are simply "playing church"?

It sounds to me that Mr. Barnes is speaking to this very issue...some of the children of the wicked one are faithful church attendees/members.    If so, Alayman, in context of the scriptures, quoted Mr. Barnes properly.

The question was, is it about the world, or the church? 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but when Jesus says, "The field is the world", I take that as a strong hint that the field is the world. 

Go figure. 

 
From the Bible Bibles Commentary: "13:38  The field is the world. It is important to emphasize that the field is the world, not the church. The good seeds mean the sons of the kingdom. It might seem bizarre and incongruous to think of living human beings being planted into the ground. But the point is that these sons of the kingdom were sown in the world. During His years of public ministry, Jesus sowed the world with disciples who were loyal subjects of the kingdom. The tares are the sons of the wicked one. Satan has a counterfeit for every divine reality. He sows the world with those who look like, talk like, and, to some extent, walk like disciples. But they are not genuine followers of the King."

From the James, Faussett, and Brown Commentary: "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field, etc. — In the parable of the Sower, “the seed is the word of God” (Luk_8:11). But here that word has been received into the heart, and has converted him that received it into a new creature, a “child of the kingdom,” according to that saying of James (Jam_1:18), “Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.” It is worthy of notice that this vast field of the world is here said to be Christ’s own - “His field,” says the parable. (See Psa_2:8)."

From the People's New Testament Commentary: "Matthew 13:36-43


Declare unto us the tares of the field. The parable in Mat_13:24-30 above. By a comparison we may learn: 1. The kingdom is likened to a man sowing good seed in his field. 2. The Sower is the Son of man, who sows by means of his kingdom. 3. The good seed is the word of God as seen in its fruits, Christ's followers. 4. The field is the world. It is Christ's field. All power is given to him in heaven and in earth. His kingdom is rightfully the whole earth, but much of it is held still by the enemy, who has to be conquered. He will prevail finally, and the kingdoms of the earth shall become the kingdom of the Lord and his Christ. 5. The wheat raised from the good seed is the "children of the kingdom," the disciples of Christ converted by his word. 6. The tares are not bad church members, but bad men; those who have been under the influence of the wicked one. 7. The righteous and wicked are to remain in the earth together. The righteous are not to exterminate the wicked. The evil and the good will be mixed until judgment day. 8. Then all shall be gathered at the throne of judgment. The righteous shall "inherit the kingdom." All that are wicked shall be cast out of the kingdom. An eternal separation shall take place."


From The Preacher's Commentary: "The Parable of the Tares Explained
Jesus dismissed the multitude and closed His class for the day. Having entered His house to be away from the crowd, He was alone with the disciples. Fortunately for our understanding, they asked Him to interpret the parable of the wheat and the tares. His answer is clear and concise. The key to its meaning is in the seven terms interpreted in verses Mat_13:37-39 : (1) the sower is the Son of Man, (2) the field is the world, (3) the good seed means the children of the kingdom, (4) the tares are the sons of the wicked one, (5) the enemy is the devil, (6) the harvest is the end of the age, and (7) the reapers are the angels.
The meaning of the parable is that as the Son of Man introduces the kingdom of heaven into the world, the powers of evil will do everything possible to resist the kingdom. Ultimately, the kingdom will succeed. Special attention should be called to His statement that the field is the world, not the church. This parable has often been used to speak against a disciplined church, affirming that Jesus lets the tares remain in the church until the final judgment. Such was the position of Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and others who were defending a church-state, not a believers' church as separate in society. The radical Reformation of the sixteenth century called for an authentic church of believers answering to the mandate of Christ alone. The Anabaptists regarded the Constantinian State Church as a fallen church. The Reformers used this parable against the Anabaptists to justify a people's church where believers and unbelievers (or unconverted) shared together as wheat and tares. But Jesus said, "The field is the world," not the church.
Jesus describes His own role at the end of the age in verse Mat_13:41. The Messiah will be Judge, as foretold by John the Baptist, but Jesus places His action at the end of the age. This judgment is spoken of in Old Testament passages such as Zep_1:2-6. The description, "the furnace of fire," is no doubt lifted from the apocalyptic language of Daniel (Dan_3:6), as is "the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Dan_12:3). Note the significant use of the two phrases, "of His kingdom," identifying it as a present reality at work in the world and "the kingdom of their Father," the eternal kingdom. This may best be understood by reading 1Co_15:24, in which Paul shows Christ as completing His kingdom and turning it over to the Father as a fait accompli, a finished work."

From Robertson's Word Pictures: "The field is the world (ho de agros estin ho kosmos). The article with both “field” and “world” in Greek means that subject and predicate are coextensive and so interchangeable. It is extremely important to understand that both the good seed and the darnel (tares) are sown in the world, not in the Kingdom, not in the church. The separation comes at the consummation of the age (sunteleia aiōnos, Mat_13:39), the harvest time. They all grow together in the field (the world)."
 
Dunkard said:
From the Bible Bibles Commentary: "13:38  The field is the world. It is important to emphasize that the field is the world, not the church....


You miss the point of my response to TRT.  He's the epitome of smarmy.  Rather than open the discussion with honest and civil discourse he has to be a smart aleck, and ignorant as well.  I don't say ignorant as a pejorative, but as a true description of his position of not recognizing the potential that his overly simplistic pronouncement is short sighted.  And determining what perspective should be taken on the interpretation of the passage isn't merely about counting noses of commmentators, or saying "my theologue is bigger than yours", but it is foolhearty to not observe that the controversy isn't anything new.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Dunkard said:
From the Bible Bibles Commentary: "13:38  The field is the world. It is important to emphasize that the field is the world, not the church....


You miss the point of my response to TRT.  He's the epitome of smarmy.  Rather than open the discussion with honest and civil discourse he has to be a smart aleck, and ignorant as well.  I don't say ignorant as a pejorative, but as a true description of his position of not recognizing the potential that his overly simplistic pronouncement is short sighted.  And determining what perspective should be taken on the interpretation of the passage isn't merely about counting noses of commmentators, but it is foolhearty to not observer that the controversy isn't anything new.

good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you.jpg
 
Jesus' own interpretation: the wheat is the Kingdom of God, growing up in the world alongside wicked people, and ultimately separated at the end of the world, with the wicked people being destroyed.

Simple, really. Only someone missing the obvious (like Albert Barnes apparently did) would think that "world" = "church."
 
Jean The Simpleton Calvin
Inst. IV.1. 13.: “In bearing with imperfections of life we ought to be far more considerate. For here the descent is very slippery and Satan ambushes us with no ordinary devices. For there have always been those who, imbued with a false conviction of their own perfect sanctity, as if they had already become a sort of airy spirits, spurned association with all men in whom they discern any remnant of human nature. The Cathari of old were of this sort, as well as the Donatists, who approached them in foolishness. Such today are some of the Anabaptists who wish to appear advanced beyond other men. There are others who sin more out of ill-advised zeal for righteousness than out of that insane pride. When they do not see a quality of life corresponding to the doctrine of the gospel among those to whom it is announced, they immediately judge that no church exists in that place. This is a very legitimate complaint, and we give all too much occasion for it in this most miserable age. And our cursed sloth is not to be excused, for the Lord will not allow it to go unpunished, seeing that he has already begun to chastise it with heavy stripes. Woe to us, then, who act with such dissolute and criminal license that weak consciences are wounded because of us! But on their part those of whom we have spoken sin in that they do not know how to restrain their disfavor. For where the Lord requires kindness, they neglect it and give themselves over completely to immoderate severity. Indeed, because they think no church exists where there are not perfect purity and integrity of life, they depart out of hatred of wickedness from the lawful church, while they fancy themselves turning aside from the faction of the wicked. They claim that the church of Christ is holy [Ephesians 5:26]. But in order that they may know that the church is at the same time mingled of good men and bad, let them hear the parable from Christ's lips that compares the church to a net bin which all kinds of fish are gathered and are not sorted until laid out on the shore [Matthew 13:47-58]. Let them hear that it is like a field sown with good seed which is through the enemy's deceit scattered with tares and is not purged of them until the harvest is brought into the threshing floor [Matthew 13:24-3-].



lol, that dolt and theological lightweight.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Jean The Simpleton Calvin
Inst. IV.1. 13.: “In bearing with imperfections of life we ought to be far more considerate. For here the descent is very slippery and Satan ambushes us with no ordinary devices. For there have always been those who, imbued with a false conviction of their own perfect sanctity, as if they had already become a sort of airy spirits, spurned association with all men in whom they discern any remnant of human nature. The Cathari of old were of this sort, as well as the Donatists, who approached them in foolishness. Such today are some of the Anabaptists who wish to appear advanced beyond other men. There are others who sin more out of ill-advised zeal for righteousness than out of that insane pride. When they do not see a quality of life corresponding to the doctrine of the gospel among those to whom it is announced, they immediately judge that no church exists in that place. This is a very legitimate complaint, and we give all too much occasion for it in this most miserable age. And our cursed sloth is not to be excused, for the Lord will not allow it to go unpunished, seeing that he has already begun to chastise it with heavy stripes. Woe to us, then, who act with such dissolute and criminal license that weak consciences are wounded because of us! But on their part those of whom we have spoken sin in that they do not know how to restrain their disfavor. For where the Lord requires kindness, they neglect it and give themselves over completely to immoderate severity. Indeed, because they think no church exists where there are not perfect purity and integrity of life, they depart out of hatred of wickedness from the lawful church, while they fancy themselves turning aside from the faction of the wicked. They claim that the church of Christ is holy [Ephesians 5:26]. But in order that they may know that the church is at the same time mingled of good men and bad, let them hear the parable from Christ's lips that compares the church to a net bin which all kinds of fish are gathered and are not sorted until laid out on the shore [Matthew 13:47-58]. Let them hear that it is like a field sown with good seed which is through the enemy's deceit scattered with tares and is not purged of them until the harvest is brought into the threshing floor [Matthew 13:24-3-].



lol, that dolt and theological lightweight.

What does Christ say?
 
Dunkard said:
What does Christ say?


Does "all" always mean "all" without distinction?  Or more to the point, is "kosmos" always speaking of the entire globe?  Does "world" ever have contextual qualifiers?
 
Your other idol, John MacArthur....

You'd be amazed how complex people have made this parable. I've heard people...well, most commentators that I read, and I read probably 20 different books on this particular passage, most of them said the field is the church. And that the...in the church the wheat and the tares grow together and you've all heard that, that's been the common interpretation. Jesus said in verse 38, "The field is the world."

Now it doesn't seem too difficult, does it? You say - But you have to interpret what He meant. No, He just interpreted what He meant. First of all, the field was a field, just a field with a guy sowing and then He said the field means the world and now you say the world means the church, somebody else might come along in the next generation and say the church means the Baptist church. And then the next generation it means the Baptist church in the corner over ... you can't do that, you just leave it where it is, the Lord said the field is the world and He knows the word church and if He wanted to use it, Held have used it. The field is the world.

Here's a gift.  You're going to need it. 

1283419112681_hz-fileserver2_2972691.jpg
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
lnf said:
Ummm, Mr. Tomato, I didn't take the time to research the threads, but are you not one of the folks here who quote certain statistics that claim a rather large percentage of regular church-goers are not saved? 

Absolutely.  And it's true.  That doesn't mean this is what Jesus was talking about. 

lnf said:
In the quoted passages, wouldn't Jesus have also been talking about people who attend church but are not really His?  He wouldn't consider those folks as children of the kingdom, would He?

It seems to me that Jesus is talking about a specific group of people...the children of the wicked one.  That would include the people who do not claim Christ as Savior, but would it not also include people who are simply "playing church"?

It sounds to me that Mr. Barnes is speaking to this very issue...some of the children of the wicked one are faithful church attendees/members.    If so, Alayman, in context of the scriptures, quoted Mr. Barnes properly.

The question was, is it about the world, or the church? 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but when Jesus says, "The field is the world", I take that as a strong hint that the field is the world. 

Go figure.

But, using your own reckoning (a large percentage of unsaved people regularly attending church) wouldn't those "playing church" actually be of the world?  Why would you not liken that subset of people as "infesting" the church...just like the tares among the wheat?  What I mean is aren't they really of the world, but just pretending to be of the body of Christ? 

Perhaps the disconnect here is a recognition of when Jesus said what He said...  The "church" was not yet birthed when He gave this parable...and certainly not the church as we experience it some 2000 years later...

Jesus did not make a distinction between "the church" and the "the world" in this parable.  He only delineated between the "children of the kingdom" and the "children of the wicked one".

So, to go back to the original post: The parable of the wheat and tares, does it concern the world, or the church?  Perhaps the most accurate answer is "yes" and "yes".
 
lnf said:
The Rogue Tomato said:
lnf said:
Ummm, Mr. Tomato, I didn't take the time to research the threads, but are you not one of the folks here who quote certain statistics that claim a rather large percentage of regular church-goers are not saved? 

Absolutely.  And it's true.  That doesn't mean this is what Jesus was talking about. 

lnf said:
In the quoted passages, wouldn't Jesus have also been talking about people who attend church but are not really His?  He wouldn't consider those folks as children of the kingdom, would He?

It seems to me that Jesus is talking about a specific group of people...the children of the wicked one.  That would include the people who do not claim Christ as Savior, but would it not also include people who are simply "playing church"?

It sounds to me that Mr. Barnes is speaking to this very issue...some of the children of the wicked one are faithful church attendees/members.    If so, Alayman, in context of the scriptures, quoted Mr. Barnes properly.

The question was, is it about the world, or the church? 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but when Jesus says, "The field is the world", I take that as a strong hint that the field is the world. 

Go figure.

But, using your own reckoning (a large percentage of unsaved people regularly attending church) wouldn't those "playing church" actually be of the world?  Why would you not liken that subset of people as "infesting" the church...just like the tares among the wheat?  What I mean is aren't they really of the world, but just pretending to be of the body of Christ? 

Perhaps the disconnect here is a recognition of when Jesus said what He said...  The "church" was not yet birthed when He gave this parable...and certainly not the church as we experience it some 2000 years later...

Jesus did not make a distinction between "the church" and the "the world" in this parable.  He only delineated between the "children of the kingdom" and the "children of the wicked one".

So, to go back to the original post: The parable of the wheat and tares, does it concern the world, or the church?  Perhaps the most accurate answer is "yes" and "yes".

Jesus gave us the interpretation of the parable.  Tell you what.  I'm just going to go with that.  You make up whatever interpretation you want. 

 
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