Matthew 13:24....the world, or the church?

[lnf]

Ummm, Mr. Tomato, I didn't take the time to research the threads, but are you not one of the folks here who quote certain statistics that claim a rather large percentage of regular church-goers are not saved? 

Absolutely.  And it's true.  That doesn't mean this is what Jesus was talking about. 

In the quoted passages, wouldn't Jesus have also been talking about people who attend church but are not really His?  He wouldn't consider those folks as children of the kingdom, would He?

It seems to me that Jesus is talking about a specific group of people...the children of the wicked one.  That would include the people who do not claim Christ as Savior, but would it not also include people who are simply "playing church"?

It sounds to me that Mr. Barnes is speaking to this very issue...some of the children of the wicked one are faithful church attendees/members.    If so, Alayman, in context of the scriptures, quoted Mr. Barnes properly.

The question was, is it about the world, or the church? 

Hey, maybe it's just me, but when Jesus says, "The field is the world", I take that as a strong hint that the field is the world. 

Go figure.

But, using your own reckoning (a large percentage of unsaved people regularly attending church) wouldn't those "playing church" actually be of the world?  Why would you not liken that subset of people as "infesting" the church...just like the tares among the wheat?  What I mean is aren't they really of the world, but just pretending to be of the body of Christ? 

Perhaps the disconnect here is a recognition of when Jesus said what He said...  The "church" was not yet birthed when He gave this parable...and certainly not the church as we experience it some 2000 years later...

Jesus did not make a distinction between "the church" and the "the world" in this parable.  He only delineated between the "children of the kingdom" and the "children of the wicked one".

So, to go back to the original post: The parable of the wheat and tares, does it concern the world, or the church?  Perhaps the most accurate answer is "yes" and "yes".

Jesus gave us the interpretation of the parable.  Tell you what.  I'm just going to go with that.  You make up whatever interpretation you want.

Mr. Tomato, truly, I don't understand your response.  Yes, Jesus did indeed give us an interpretation of the parable.  Where in my comments have I gone contrary to that?  I have tried to engage you in an honest conversation.  Do you think my thoughts on these scriptures are unworthy of your time...or have you no response to my comments? 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Mr. Tomato, truly, I don't understand your response.  Yes, Jesus did indeed give us an interpretation of the parable.  Where in my comments have I gone contrary to that?  I have tried to engage you in an honest conversation.  Do you think my thoughts on these scriptures are unworthy of your time...or have you no response to my comments?

Yes, they are unworthy of my time.  Jesus said it clearly.  I have nothing to add to that.  Like I said, if you want to add to what Jesus said, feel free.  You'll be wrong, but feel free. 

 

[lnf]

Mr. Tomato, truly, I don't understand your response.  Yes, Jesus did indeed give us an interpretation of the parable.  Where in my comments have I gone contrary to that?  I have tried to engage you in an honest conversation.  Do you think my thoughts on these scriptures are unworthy of your time...or have you no response to my comments?

Yes, they are unworthy of my time.  Jesus said it clearly.  I have nothing to add to that.  Like I said, if you want to add to what Jesus said, feel free.  You'll be wrong, but feel free.

Well, I honestly don't think I added to what Jesus said, but I'm comfortable with  agreeing to disagree with you on this subject.  I pray you a pleasant night, Mr. Tomato.  May our future conversations be a bit more edifying than this one. 

 

[Ransom]

Jean The Simpleton Calvin

Ha ha, look at LAMER trying to play the Scholastic by citing authorities.

We're being trolled.

 

[prophet]

Jean The Simpleton Calvin

Ha ha, look at LAMER trying to play the Scholastic by citing authorities.

We're being trolled.

You know you are in over your head, when your grammar falls apart as you call someone else : 'simple'.
That would be 'foolhearty'...

 

[rsc2a]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

 

[Mathew Ward]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

 

[rsc2a]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

A called out body of redeemed believers vs. a place you go on sundays for...

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

rsc2a already said it, but I'll give you the definition of church (not my definition, the definition):  Ecclesia (translated as "church") means "called out [ones]". 

When one says, "to the called out in Ephesus", it's just like saying "to the women in Chicago".  The individual message may be directed to a sub-group in a location, but the definition of ecclesia itself still refers to the whole body of Christ. 

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

By the way, this definition proves that Matthew 13:24 etc. could not possibly refer to the church, even if Jesus hadn't plainly explained what the parable meant.  The called out are the called out.  If you blend in the people who are not called out, then they are no longer the called out.

 

[subllibrm]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

Wow.  Overreact much?  Just because you like what happens on Sunday doesn't give you permission to redefine "church". 

Like it or not, ecclesia (which is translated in the Bible as church) never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

 

[subllibrm]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

Wow.  Overreact much?  Just because you like what happens on Sunday doesn't give you permission to redefine "church". 

Like it or not, ecclesia (which is translated in the Bible as church) never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to".

So why do you have such a problem with the ecclesia meeting together in one room on Sunday morning? All of the things the ecclesia is commanded to do gets done throughout the week. We care for each other. We hold each other up and keep each other accountable. I interact with the ecclesia all week long. There is certainly nothing limiting the ecclesia to a 2 hour window once a week, your protestations aside.

Once you get done picking that nit you may want to see if it's hair needs to be split any further.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

Wow.  Overreact much?  Just because you like what happens on Sunday doesn't give you permission to redefine "church". 

Like it or not, ecclesia (which is translated in the Bible as church) never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to".

So why do you have such a problem with the ecclesia meeting together in one room on Sunday morning?

I have no problem with it at all.  I'm not sure why you think I do.  I do it. 

All of the things the ecclesia is commanded to do gets done throughout the week. We care for each other. We hold each other up and keep each other accountable. I interact with the ecclesia all week long. There is certainly nothing limiting the ecclesia to a 2 hour window once a week, your protestations aside.

Once you get done picking that nit you may want to see if it's hair needs to be split any further.

I don't think you understand my views at all. 

 

[subllibrm]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

Wow.  Overreact much?  Just because you like what happens on Sunday doesn't give you permission to redefine "church". 

Like it or not, ecclesia (which is translated in the Bible as church) never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to".

So why do you have such a problem with the ecclesia meeting together in one room on Sunday morning?

I have no problem with it at all.  I'm not sure why you think I do.  I do it. 

All of the things the ecclesia is commanded to do gets done throughout the week. We care for each other. We hold each other up and keep each other accountable. I interact with the ecclesia all week long. There is certainly nothing limiting the ecclesia to a 2 hour window once a week, your protestations aside.

Once you get done picking that nit you may want to see if it's hair needs to be split any further.

I don't think you understand my views at all.

I have already told you that another string on that banjo would help widen the scope of your tune. 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

And in your zeal to take down the "beast" you ignore the folks who successfully serve, grow and thrive in the "model" that you detest.

Our best "church" happens between Sundays. Meeting together in one big room on Sunday morning doesn't prevent that or even deter it.

Wow.  Overreact much?  Just because you like what happens on Sunday doesn't give you permission to redefine "church". 

Like it or not, ecclesia (which is translated in the Bible as church) never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to".

So why do you have such a problem with the ecclesia meeting together in one room on Sunday morning?

I have no problem with it at all.  I'm not sure why you think I do.  I do it. 

All of the things the ecclesia is commanded to do gets done throughout the week. We care for each other. We hold each other up and keep each other accountable. I interact with the ecclesia all week long. There is certainly nothing limiting the ecclesia to a 2 hour window once a week, your protestations aside.

Once you get done picking that nit you may want to see if it's hair needs to be split any further.

I don't think you understand my views at all.

I have already told you that another string on that banjo would help widen the scope of your tune. 

Except, given your remarks, you think I'm playing a banjo when it's really a violin. 

 

[subllibrm]

Since my understanding of church and my personal life practice aligns with ecclesia rather than "doing church" I am at a loss as to what to do next. I'm not even sure what the issue is.

 

[Ransom]

I'm not even sure what the issue is.

There is no issue. ALAYMAN is just stirring up crap, again.

 

[Mathew Ward]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

A called out body of redeemed believers vs. a place you go on sundays for...

I don't know anyone on here that defines church as a place you go to on Sundays. Maybe you do or have someone in mind.

 

[Mathew Ward]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

rsc2a already said it, but I'll give you the definition of church (not my definition, the definition):  Ecclesia (translated as "church") means "called out [ones]". 

When one says, "to the called out in Ephesus", it's just like saying "to the women in Chicago".  The individual message may be directed to a sub-group in a location, but the definition of ecclesia itself still refers to the whole body of Christ. 

Ecclesia never means a building, or a club with membership rules, or a 2-hour service that you "go to". 

By the way, this definition proves that Matthew 13:24 etc. could not possibly refer to the church, even if Jesus hadn't plainly explained what the parable meant.  The called out are the called out.  If you blend in the people who are not called out, then they are no longer the called out.

So a local visible group?

Do you have someone in mind who defines it as a building or a service? Because I don't know anyone who does...

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If people didn't insist on a wonky definition of  "church", the question wouldn't even make sense.

Please give us your definition of church vs a wonky definition of church.

A called out body of redeemed believers vs. a place you go on sundays for...

I don't know anyone on here that defines church as a place you go to on Sundays. Maybe you do or have someone in mind.

Come on.  Almost everyone uses the expression "go to church".  Do you go to church?  If so, then you're referring to it as a place to go on Sundays (or other days if you have services then). 

But the word translated as church really means called out.  You don't go to called out on Sundays.  The distinction is important.