Matthew 13:24....the world, or the church?

[ALAYMAN]

Nice dodge.  You asked how Paul could expel people from the church at Corinth.  I answered that they could when the darnels became clearly evident that they were tares.

Makes sense to me.  Jesus said "so it will be at the end of the age," so clearly he meant "so will it be right now, when the tares become apparent."

Via application, in like manner to which Jesus will ultimately separate the sheep from the goats, we will use discerning judgment now (judge those among you).  But in our imperfect judgment, we must be much more liberal in our attempts to sort things out, not being judgmental or hasty to root them out.

 

[subllibrm]

Matthew 18

"And if he still does not hear you take it to the ecclesia"

I will as soon as mater loans me his taredar unit so that I don't inadvertently include any of them in the meeting.

To follow this instruction at the jot and tittle level mater demands is to be able to know who the tares are and we are clearly taught that we don'/can't always know.

So mater, who are the called out ones and how do we gather them together to discipline someone per Matt:18?

 

[Ransom]

Okay, heretofore I haven't publicly said which side of the coin I come down on.  I tend to believe the straightforward interpretation that the world is, well, the world.

Alright, who had "We're being trolled" in the betting pool?

Oh, right, that was me. 150 posts ago.

 

[subllibrm]

So my "church" contains the ecclesia and some tares (but we will ignore their presence for the sake of the parable) and then when I follow Matthew 18 I need to take it to the "church" (ecclesia)

So he's talking about taking it to a "church" organization like First Baptist Church or Reformed Presbyterian Church, even though no such organizations existed at the time?  Interesting hermeneutics.

Whereas according to your definition he has to take it to all the believers or the universal church. Talk about interesting hermeneutics.


I believe the local church at Corinth handled it well.

No the "ecclesia" at Corinth knew who the tares were and didn't let them participate. 

 

[Ransom]

Via application, in like manner to which Jesus will ultimately separate the sheep from the goats, we will use discerning judgment now (judge those among you).

Via reading, we see that Jesus was teaching a lesson about the church's relationship to the world, not the church's relationship to herself.

 

[Mathew Ward]

So my "church" contains the ecclesia and some tares (but we will ignore their presence for the sake of the parable) and then when I follow Matthew 18 I need to take it to the "church" (ecclesia)

So he's talking about taking it to a "church" organization like First Baptist Church or Reformed Presbyterian Church, even though no such organizations existed at the time?  Interesting hermeneutics.

Whereas according to your definition he has to take it to all the believers or the universal church. Talk about interesting hermeneutics.


I believe the local church at Corinth handled it well.

No the "ecclesia" at Corinth knew who the tares were and didn't let them participate. 

They must have had "taredar" as a gift

 

[subllibrm]

Now it is becoming clear why mater needs a home church. He gets to use his taredar to make sure only the "ecclesia" get in. No tares at his kitchen table.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Okay, heretofore I haven't publicly said which side of the coin I come down on.  I tend to believe the straightforward interpretation that the world is, well, the world.

Alright, who had "We're being trolled" in the betting pool?

Oh, right, that was me. 150 posts ago.

Dude, try not bein' such a punk, for just once, just one time, try to be normal.  I don't have a clue what you're talkin' bout.  I'm a straight up kinda guy.  I told you what my intents were, to stimulate conversation from both sides, regardless of what my take was.  If you can't understand the truthfulness of that then you can't be helped.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Uh-uh duh, maybe they are wrong? I'll take the words from our Creator over Calvin, Luther , Hyles, Schapp and you.

Okay, you've said, essentially, "uh-uh, look at verse 38" four times in this thread now.  I understand where you're coming from, and if that's the extent of what you have to add, why do you feel the need to repeat it so often?  I see what your opinion is.  Your work is done here, if indeed that's all you have to contribute.

i guess being "obtuse" works so well for you, I thought I have at it!

Have you read verse 38 yet then if you and others then you , not a commentary, explain it, them I'll stop, until then, read  vs 38

 

[ALAYMAN]

Uh-uh duh, maybe they are wrong? I'll take the words from our Creator over Calvin, Luther , Hyles, Schapp and you.

Okay, you've said, essentially, "uh-uh, look at verse 38" four times in this thread now.  I understand where you're coming from, and if that's the extent of what you have to add, why do you feel the need to repeat it so often?  I see what your opinion is.  Your work is done here, if indeed that's all you have to contribute.

i guess being "obtuse" works so well for you, I thought I have at it!

Put the bong down bro.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Uh-uh duh, maybe they are wrong? I'll take the words from our Creator over Calvin, Luther , Hyles, Schapp and you.

Okay, you've said, essentially, "uh-uh, look at verse 38" four times in this thread now.  I understand where you're coming from, and if that's the extent of what you have to add, why do you feel the need to repeat it so often?  I see what your opinion is.  Your work is done here, if indeed that's all you have to contribute.

i guess being "obtuse" works so well for you, I thought I have at it!

Put the bong down bro.

Nyhahahahaha!

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]I believe the local church at Corinth handled it well.[/quote]

If someone self-identifies as a believer, I'll give them the benefit if the doubt. At the same time,  there is a recognition that not everyone who calls themselves believers are actually of the church.

We are commanded to hold believers to a certain standard.  We are explicitly commanded not to do the same of the world. The standard I hold you to will depend on how you self-identify,  but that doesn't mean I'm actively looking for false believers within the brethren.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Now it is becoming clear why mater needs a home church. He gets to use his taredar to make sure only the "ecclesia" get in. No tares at his kitchen table.

That's actually what the assembly is supposed to be, although it's impossible to enforce perfectly because we can't see into the minds of men.  But if you know your assembly is 15%-60% unbelievers, and you're comfy with that, that should be a clear indication that your assembly is a failure. 

 

[Ransom]

Dude, try not bein' such a punk, for just once, just one time, try to be normal. 

Suffering fools gladly is not normal.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Now it is becoming clear why mater needs a home church. He gets to use his taredar to make sure only the "ecclesia" get in. No tares at his kitchen table.

That's actually what the assembly is supposed to be, although it's impossible to enforce perfectly because we can't see into the minds of men.  But if you know your assembly is 15%-60% unbelievers, and you're comfy with that, that should be a clear indication that your assembly is a failure.

At what point is it not a failure?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Now it is becoming clear why mater needs a home church. He gets to use his taredar to make sure only the "ecclesia" get in. No tares at his kitchen table.

That's actually what the assembly is supposed to be, although it's impossible to enforce perfectly because we can't see into the minds of men.  But if you know your assembly is 15%-60% unbelievers, and you're comfy with that, that should be a clear indication that your assembly is a failure.

At what point is it not a failure?

In your case, never. 

 

[Mathew Ward]

Now it is becoming clear why mater needs a home church. He gets to use his taredar to make sure only the "ecclesia" get in. No tares at his kitchen table.

That's actually what the assembly is supposed to be, although it's impossible to enforce perfectly because we can't see into the minds of men.  But if you know your assembly is 15%-60% unbelievers, and you're comfy with that, that should be a clear indication that your assembly is a failure.

At what point is it not a failure?

In your case, never.

Judgmental much?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Judgmental much?

He's just a bit jaded, because you're a paid staff member of a pagan organization that poses as a church.  So that's the most substance he can come up with for your kind of leach-like person.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Dude, try not bein' such a punk, for just once, just one time, try to be normal. 

Suffering fools gladly is not normal.

Just more evidence of your punkishness on display.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Judgmental much?

He's just a bit jaded, because you're a paid staff member of a pagan organization that poses as a church.  So that's the most substance he can come up with for your kind of leach-like person.

How else can I afford to take you golfing when you visit...lol