Missionaries Buying Property

[.tim]

Does the Bible FORBID a pastor to accept a salary?

No..... Nor does it demand it.

A pastor shouldn't demand a salary, or even expect it. We are about to bring on a new youth pastor at our Church, no salary, and our pastor is helping him find a job in the area. From what I understand, no pastor is promised a salary when they pastor our Church - but the Church lovingly provides.

The pastor who demands a salary doesn't seem to have his heart in the right place.

 

[T-Bone]

1 Corinthians 9: 4-14 and continue in reading in 1 Timothy 5: 17-18..... Paul was crystal clear about the church supporting the pastor...not everyone was required to go get a trade as some have inferred

Simple question.... Did you work a secular job till your church could support you full time?

If so, did you preach on 1 Corinthians 9:4-14 and 1 Timothy 5:17-18?

We've had this discussion before. There is absolutely nothing in the Scriptures that teaches every bishop of every "Tom, Dick and Harry" church in existence should draw a "salary". Nothing. It doesn't exist.

The apostles had the God given authority to put off working.... YET, Paul clearly declared that he had not USED this power nor demanded he be treated the same.

This is far cry from teaching that all churches should have a full time, salaried pastor.

In like manner, I have already said..... that local congregations on the mission field..... SHOULD SUPPORT THEIR PASTOR if that is what they choose. The "deputation should end". Often times, this is not what happens.... and you know it.

Sure I work another job while in the ministry when the church was smaller or unable to support our family.  Though they always supported our family in many ways.  I have preached the whole counsel of God in all my 34 years of ministry, as best I could at the different stages of my growth as a pastor.  I preached many times and many places without compensation...and I would still today if the church chose or could not fully support my family.  That being said the Apostle's words are clear about the church supporting those who minister in the word.  I know this doesn't look the same in all cases...but the principle is the same across the board.  I personally know very few who get rich out of the ministry.  The deputation system is not something we use...as the IFB churches do, we use the Cooperative Program.

Brother, I know you're a good pastor. You know I feel strongly about this and I'm not trying to bash those who get paid while serving God.

There is just a lot of corruption in such things. I don't think we can ignore it.

I think it is safe to say that Paul saw such teachings being abused during his time. His example is the perfect example.

With this we are in agreement.  To demand a salary is not a biblical approach.  Nor is marketing the saints, or having a hireling!  I agree that it is the local churches decision if they can support their pastor...they should, but not out of compulsion.  And again I am in agreement with you on the tithe thing. 

I am disgusted with those who abuse the church in anyway, and that is true financially.  I am grateful that my church takes care of me and my family, but if they could not I would still preach, teach, and serve while working elsewhere to support my families need.

 

[kaba]

A good Pastor DOESNT have time for a full time job.  I believe a Pastor is called in the ministry, but it is also a job! They need to support their family and if they had to rely on the good members to just give them money, they would starve! I understand if a church can not support a full time Pastor, he would then need to get a secular job to supplement his income. But to say a Pastor should not take a salary is just insipid!!!

I see nothing wrong in missionaries thinking ahead for their future. Yes the Lord will take care of them. But he also gave them a brain...and they need to use it.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence for what you're saying?.... or do you just go by what you feel?

1Co 9:15  But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I am so confused why you would think a Pastor should not get money for what he does. I cant believe it is even an argument. How can a Pastor work 40 for the church, then have to work 40 hours for a secular job, and still have time for his family? Do I need scriptural evidence why I brush my teeth?

 

[christundivided]

A good Pastor DOESNT have time for a full time job.  I believe a Pastor is called in the ministry, but it is also a job! They need to support their family and if they had to rely on the good members to just give them money, they would starve! I understand if a church can not support a full time Pastor, he would then need to get a secular job to supplement his income. But to say a Pastor should not take a salary is just insipid!!!

I see nothing wrong in missionaries thinking ahead for their future. Yes the Lord will take care of them. But he also gave them a brain...and they need to use it.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence for what you're saying?.... or do you just go by what you feel?

1Co 9:15  But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I am so confused why you would think a Pastor should not get money for what he does. I cant believe it is even an argument. How can a Pastor work 40 for the church, then have to work 40 hours for a secular job, and still have time for his family? Do I need scriptural evidence why I brush my teeth?

Brushing teeth has nothing to do with it. You're pretending the Scriptures have nothing to say about it. You're wrong and you're trying to pretend you don't need to provide any evidence.

 

[.tim]

A good Pastor DOESNT have time for a full time job.  I believe a Pastor is called in the ministry, but it is also a job! They need to support their family and if they had to rely on the good members to just give them money, they would starve! I understand if a church can not support a full time Pastor, he would then need to get a secular job to supplement his income. But to say a Pastor should not take a salary is just insipid!!!

I see nothing wrong in missionaries thinking ahead for their future. Yes the Lord will take care of them. But he also gave them a brain...and they need to use it.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence for what you're saying?.... or do you just go by what you feel?

1Co 9:15  But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I am so confused why you would think a Pastor should not get money for what he does. I cant believe it is even an argument. How can a Pastor work 40 for the church, then have to work 40 hours for a secular job, and still have time for his family? Do I need scriptural evidence why I brush my teeth?

Brushing teeth has nothing to do with it. You're pretending the Scriptures have nothing to say about it. You're wrong and you're trying to pretend you don't need to provide any evidence.

Let's face it. You expect everyone to work work work. You won't give to poor people since you assume they are playing the system. You won't agree to the idea of a pastoral salary since that isn't a "real" job that deserves pay .... glad you are not a voting member at my Church ...  8)

 

[christundivided]

A good Pastor DOESNT have time for a full time job.  I believe a Pastor is called in the ministry, but it is also a job! They need to support their family and if they had to rely on the good members to just give them money, they would starve! I understand if a church can not support a full time Pastor, he would then need to get a secular job to supplement his income. But to say a Pastor should not take a salary is just insipid!!!

I see nothing wrong in missionaries thinking ahead for their future. Yes the Lord will take care of them. But he also gave them a brain...and they need to use it.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence for what you're saying?.... or do you just go by what you feel?

1Co 9:15  But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I am so confused why you would think a Pastor should not get money for what he does. I cant believe it is even an argument. How can a Pastor work 40 for the church, then have to work 40 hours for a secular job, and still have time for his family? Do I need scriptural evidence why I brush my teeth?

Brushing teeth has nothing to do with it. You're pretending the Scriptures have nothing to say about it. You're wrong and you're trying to pretend you don't need to provide any evidence.

Let's face it. You expect everyone to work work work. You won't give to poor people since you assume they are playing the system. You won't agree to the idea of a pastoral salary since that isn't a "real" job that deserves pay .... glad you are not a voting member at my Church ...  8)

I do expect hard work..... .but I'm push over for people who work hard and still can't seem to get ahead. I don't need to tell you what I've done in this regard. God has the record and that is all that matters.

I have already said it up to a congregation as to whether they pay their pastor or not. However, I have repeated said they should not bash members of a church with the teaching of the "tithe" in order to support their ministry. I have repeatedly said that there are a lot of corruption in the "pastorate" becoming a "job" instead of a "calling" or "gift".

Do what you want with it. I've told the truth.

 

[.tim]

A good Pastor DOESNT have time for a full time job.  I believe a Pastor is called in the ministry, but it is also a job! They need to support their family and if they had to rely on the good members to just give them money, they would starve! I understand if a church can not support a full time Pastor, he would then need to get a secular job to supplement his income. But to say a Pastor should not take a salary is just insipid!!!

I see nothing wrong in missionaries thinking ahead for their future. Yes the Lord will take care of them. But he also gave them a brain...and they need to use it.

Do you have any Scriptural evidence for what you're saying?.... or do you just go by what you feel?

1Co 9:15  But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

I am so confused why you would think a Pastor should not get money for what he does. I cant believe it is even an argument. How can a Pastor work 40 for the church, then have to work 40 hours for a secular job, and still have time for his family? Do I need scriptural evidence why I brush my teeth?

Brushing teeth has nothing to do with it. You're pretending the Scriptures have nothing to say about it. You're wrong and you're trying to pretend you don't need to provide any evidence.

Let's face it. You expect everyone to work work work. You won't give to poor people since you assume they are playing the system. You won't agree to the idea of a pastoral salary since that isn't a "real" job that deserves pay .... glad you are not a voting member at my Church ...  8)

I do expect hard work..... .but I'm push over for people who work hard and still can't seem to get ahead. I don't need to tell you what I've done in this regard. God has the record and that is all that matters.

I have already said it up to a congregation as to whether they pay their pastor or not. However, I have repeated said they should not bash members of a church with the teaching of the "tithe" in order to support their ministry. I have repeatedly said that there are a lot of corruption in the "pastorate" become a "job" instead of a "calling" or "gift".

Do what you want with it. I've told the truth.

Here you seem clearer ... but ... in other spots you seem resentful, or angry, and come off that perhaps jaded .... sorry.

Yes, our old Church had a pastor who made $100,000 plus ... and we were told to tithe or we were robbing God. Silly stuff. Glad God allows us to discern and grow if we allow.

 

[kaba]

The Truth is: My Pastor works hard for the money he receives. And he deserves everything he gets. No ill will toward him at all.

 

[Biker]

The Truth is: My Pastor works hard for the money he receives. And he deserves everything he gets. No ill will toward him at all.

I don't think anyone has ill towards those Pastors that receive money.
Btw, It's always weird to hear someone say MY PASTOR and even I lean towards saying it sometimes... though I know our church is ran by a bunch of Pastors/Elders. We use the term Elder since Pastor is only used once and they are used interchangeably in scripture

It just depends upon whether it adheres to scripture because if it doesn't, and you truly love your Pastor, you do not want him deemed an Infidel by God. 2Tim 5:8
Your opinion of whether he deserves it will not save him. It's a very narrow road which allows for funding, Paul speaks so much about it in various books. But plenty of scripture has been posted so far of Paul's concerns and his model for us.
It's not either or..yes or no whether a Pastor can take money. Is it money or re-imbursements for his volunteering. Who pays to volunteer?

With most things, it takes much study and whether there are warnings to choose that route, and what could possibly happen if you do so. What avenue is to be strived for and how easy is it to just be acting within Gods will? Maybe just a few tweaks in personal finances will take care of it.

Much of the time funding can be obtained via the worlds avenues which do not oppose scripture but fall within it. Food Stamps, Cash Welfare, Veterans Pension (which is earned income even if not categorized as such for paperwork) Foster Care Stipends are not counted as income though depending, you can make alot and get cash aid and food stamps ...along with qualifying for free health care. And it adheres to the commandment to care for Orphans. These avenues can be utilized forever by a Christian even if it is controversial in the world. They don't think eternally.
To request money from the church for wants instead of basic needs, is just wrong. YOu want something, you get yourself a job. The church shouldn't have one man running the show anyhow. Instead cut your volunteer hours at church,and work those same hours in a paying job.  Or realize that
maybe this isn't a calling after all. Or not any longer. Maybe God wants that person somewhere else.

 

[Biker]

2 Thessalonians 3:7-10 ESV / 42 helpful votes
For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

Why did Paul say this?
1. In order that they imitate him, not be idle and mock him by paying for bread, not taking handouts even while toiling night and day
2. He did not want to be a burden to the Flock
3. He wanted to show he had the right to eat the bread without paying due to his hard labor
4. To give the command IF ANYONE NOT WORK, including Paul, then he won't eat ALL WHILE PAYING FOR HIS OWN BREAD. NOT OUT OF the flocks donations $$ BUT HIS OWN EARNED INCOME.
Paul has contrasted his own secular work, his own earned income paying for the bread, with being in opposition to taking handouts (such as getting the bread for free)

 

[Biker]

Acts 20:30-35 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or clothes. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my own needs and to the men who were with me. 35 In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”



Paul is so awesome. He even worked with his hands to cover not only his needs but those with him ^^^!  why?
1. To put NOTHING in the way of the Gospel.
2. So we will work "in the exact manner" he's instructed, taking food and what is needed for a living, aka to stay alive and healthy.
3. He modeled for us so we will imitate him
4. Because it is more blessed to give than to receive