My Purpose

[subllibrm]

Because I was asked.

My purpose is to encourage the brethren to see that their “alignment” with people of low character is having a negative effect upon them, their personal testimony and their effectiveness in sharing the gospel. To point out that we are not called to cooperate with the world, and certainly not make excuses for their behavior and actions. The company we keep matters.

Everyone has fixated on my stated opinion of Mr Trump. Made assumptions about how I vote(ed) and my position on any number of policy matters. At the same time ignoring my arguments that the church has a calling to change the world, not by political means but by prayer and supplication. That the foul discourse being used by Christians is not appropriate for the child of God. That we are His ambassadors first and all that we do reflects on Him. We cannot claim Christ and His grace and curse the very people who He died for.

Everything that I have posted has been based upon my understanding of how I am to present the gospel and represent my Savior. “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” I do not see how the idea of the feet bringing the gospel can be effective (or beautiful) if they are covered in the muck and mud of the world. Or how the preaching of the Word can be mixed with the vulgarity that has taken over public discourse. More importantly how we can expect the lost to separate the two and discern the truth of scripture from the noise of the rhetoric.

This has been a long process for me and obviously an annoying experience for you all. I have not been perfect in my presentations but I have been compelled to make this case. Alayman stated that “separation” is often an act of obedience to a conviction of the conscience. Consider this as an act of obedience. My point was and is intended as an exhortation to be aware of the dangers lurking in the world of politics. It seems to have been received as a rebuke. As every preacher knows it is possible to control what you communicate but not how it is understood. I have spoken truth as I understand it. How it landed on your heart and mind is beyond my power to control.

I have arrived at a point where I have run out of ideas for communicating what I wanted to convey. I will leave it to you to decide if the Lord was in any of this.

My plan is to bow out and take a break for a while. I’m deeply fond of the folks here. I have been blessed to meet several of you and communicate with others on other platforms.

Blessings
Bill

 

[Ekklesian]

You've made your point. We've made ours. Have a restful break.

 

[Ekklesian]

the church has a calling to change the world

That is not the calling of the church.

Jesus did not come to change the world, but to provide an escape from the wrath that is certain to come upon it.

 

[AverageJoe]

Because I was asked.

My purpose is to encourage the brethren to see that their “alignment” with people of low character is having a negative effect upon them, their personal testimony and their effectiveness in sharing the gospel. To point out that we are not called to cooperate with the world, and certainly not make excuses for their behavior and actions. The company we keep matters.

Everyone has fixated on my stated opinion of Mr Trump. Made assumptions about how I vote(ed) and my position on any number of policy matters. At the same time ignoring my arguments that the church has a calling to change the world, not by political means but by prayer and supplication. That the foul discourse being used by Christians is not appropriate for the child of God. That we are His ambassadors first and all that we do reflects on Him. We cannot claim Christ and His grace and curse the very people who He died for.

Everything that I have posted has been based upon my understanding of how I am to present the gospel and represent my Savior. “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” I do not see how the idea of the feet bringing the gospel can be effective (or beautiful) if they are covered in the muck and mud of the world. Or how the preaching of the Word can be mixed with the vulgarity that has taken over public discourse. More importantly how we can expect the lost to separate the two and discern the truth of scripture from the noise of the rhetoric.

This has been a long process for me and obviously an annoying experience for you all. I have not been perfect in my presentations but I have been compelled to make this case. Alayman stated that “separation” is often an act of obedience to a conviction of the conscience. Consider this as an act of obedience. My point was and is intended as an exhortation to be aware of the dangers lurking in the world of politics. It seems to have been received as a rebuke. As every preacher knows it is possible to control what you communicate but not how it is understood. I have spoken truth as I understand it. How it landed on your heart and mind is beyond my power to control.

I have arrived at a point where I have run out of ideas for communicating what I wanted to convey. I will leave it to you to decide if the Lord was in any of this.

My plan is to bow out and take a break for a while. I’m deeply fond of the folks here. I have been blessed to meet several of you and communicate with others on other platforms.

Blessings
Bill

Jesus didn't call US to change the world. He will do that himself as we go, preach, teach, and disciple others. The world has been wicked since the fall in the Garden and will be so until the new Heaven and new earth.

 

[abcaines]

That is not the calling of the church.

Jesus did not come to change the world, but to provide an escape from the wrath that is certain to come upon it.

Now, there's some perspective. Kinda of a DUH! moment...

Nowhere are we called to change the world. We are called to preach the Word to all (Mark 16:15); we are called to make disciples (Matt 28:19-20)... Any change that comes will be from the Holy Spirit. In fact, Matthew 24:14 seems to suggest that the Word being preached will be a testimony more than an agent of change:

"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come." (NLT)

 

[ALAYMAN]

Well, I’m kind of late to the party I see, but I echo the sentiments already expressed in saying that we are not called to the mission of changing the world through politics, but we are called to acknowledge governments role in restraining evil. It necessarily follows from that that we should be responsible to participate in the process because we’ve been given the privilege of a republic and should be stewards of a government that will act as ministers to restrain evil.

I agree with your perspective that this process should be done with civility and dignity, even if the candidate who best advances maximum relative righteous is a cad.

 

[FSSL]

I don't see how voting for Trump sullies the "feet of the gospel."
I DO see how those who post memes and get political on places like Facebook does no good for a Christian.
I don't make my political affiliations public. With that said, I vote freely for someone who has already shown us that he is able to win conservative causes.

 

[abcaines]

I DO see how those who post memes and get political on places like Facebook does no good for a Christian.

Part of the reason I no longer participate in FARCEbook. I have been guilty of finding memes and in my flesh, liking them and sharing them. The fact of the matter is, when I get political, I become a total jerk. When I'm consumed with our political situation, I make Trump look like a saint. I have to back off and remember that solid conservative politics are not our salvation. A good many people who are conservative are still hellbound. This doesn't mean I have backed off from my conservative opinions... not even a little. I too find it's a believer's duty to advance sound principles and stand for them at the ballot box.

 

[aleshanee]

Because I was asked.

My purpose is to encourage the brethren to see that their “alignment” with people of low character is having a negative effect upon them, their personal testimony and their effectiveness in sharing the gospel. To point out that we are not called to cooperate with the world, and certainly not make excuses for their behavior and actions. The company we keep matters.

Everyone has fixated on my stated opinion of Mr Trump. Made assumptions about how I vote(ed) and my position on any number of policy matters. At the same time ignoring my arguments that the church has a calling to change the world, not by political means but by prayer and supplication. That the foul discourse being used by Christians is not appropriate for the child of God. That we are His ambassadors first and all that we do reflects on Him. We cannot claim Christ and His grace and curse the very people who He died for.

Everything that I have posted has been based upon my understanding of how I am to present the gospel and represent my Savior. “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” I do not see how the idea of the feet bringing the gospel can be effective (or beautiful) if they are covered in the muck and mud of the world. Or how the preaching of the Word can be mixed with the vulgarity that has taken over public discourse. More importantly how we can expect the lost to separate the two and discern the truth of scripture from the noise of the rhetoric.

This has been a long process for me and obviously an annoying experience for you all. I have not been perfect in my presentations but I have been compelled to make this case. Alayman stated that “separation” is often an act of obedience to a conviction of the conscience. Consider this as an act of obedience. My point was and is intended as an exhortation to be aware of the dangers lurking in the world of politics. It seems to have been received as a rebuke. As every preacher knows it is possible to control what you communicate but not how it is understood. I have spoken truth as I understand it. How it landed on your heart and mind is beyond my power to control.

I have arrived at a point where I have run out of ideas for communicating what I wanted to convey. I will leave it to you to decide if the Lord was in any of this.

My plan is to bow out and take a break for a while. I’m deeply fond of the folks here. I have been blessed to meet several of you and communicate with others on other platforms.

Blessings
Bill

since i;m the one who ask you what your purpose was ... (sort of.... what i actually did was ask if your purpose was to alienate the rest of the forum)... i guess i should answer you as best as possible.... .. i have great respect for you...and i appreciate the time and consideration you put into your answer..... .... but now after reading this i don;t think you are in any way prepared or even willing to consider what i might say... ... i think you have confused separation with isolation and can no longer tell the difference between the two... ...and i have a lot more to say about that.. ...

however... ...it;s 4 am here and sunday mornings are very busy ... so i can;t adress it now... ..but never the less i will say more about it and provide a better answer when we get back this afternoon.... (probably late this afternoon which will be night time already on the most of the mainland....)

 

[FSSL]

The way I view it is... on Facebook and other social media, where you have friends/family/clients that are on the same platform, I don't broadcast my personal religious and political views.

On this site, I will just speak my mind on the religious and political views. We don't have to agree. I don't expect 100% alignment... just be loyal to the FFF. LOL... major tongue in my cheek!

 

[biscuit1953]

The church is for the equipping of the saints (Eph 4:11-12). Too many preachers are afraid of losing members who claim to be Christians and may be offended by being rebuked for doing things the Bible condemns. They are trying to maintain numbers instead of discipling. Frank Turek has one of the best definitions of what "politics" is that I have ever heard.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Because I was asked.

My purpose is to encourage the brethren to see that their “alignment” with people of low character is having a negative effect upon them, their personal testimony and their effectiveness in sharing the gospel. To point out that we are not called to cooperate with the world, and certainly not make excuses for their behavior and actions. The company we keep matters.

Everyone has fixated on my stated opinion of Mr Trump. Made assumptions about how I vote(ed) and my position on any number of policy matters. At the same time ignoring my arguments that the church has a calling to change the world, not by political means but by prayer and supplication. That the foul discourse being used by Christians is not appropriate for the child of God. That we are His ambassadors first and all that we do reflects on Him. We cannot claim Christ and His grace and curse the very people who He died for.

Everything that I have posted has been based upon my understanding of how I am to present the gospel and represent my Savior. “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” I do not see how the idea of the feet bringing the gospel can be effective (or beautiful) if they are covered in the muck and mud of the world. Or how the preaching of the Word can be mixed with the vulgarity that has taken over public discourse. More importantly how we can expect the lost to separate the two and discern the truth of scripture from the noise of the rhetoric.

This has been a long process for me and obviously an annoying experience for you all. I have not been perfect in my presentations but I have been compelled to make this case. Alayman stated that “separation” is often an act of obedience to a conviction of the conscience. Consider this as an act of obedience. My point was and is intended as an exhortation to be aware of the dangers lurking in the world of politics. It seems to have been received as a rebuke. As every preacher knows it is possible to control what you communicate but not how it is understood. I have spoken truth as I understand it. How it landed on your heart and mind is beyond my power to control.

I have arrived at a point where I have run out of ideas for communicating what I wanted to convey. I will leave it to you to decide if the Lord was in any of this.

My plan is to bow out and take a break for a while. I’m deeply fond of the folks here. I have been blessed to meet several of you and communicate with others on other platforms.

Blessings
Bill

I'm assuming that your motives were/are pure and you are actually concerned about how the 'lost world' might respond to our support of Republicans. Of Trump.
That's an old argument which is recycled regularly...and it may have a point....but if it does it's in specific places in response to specific people. You seem to post with an assumption that every Trump voter calls their opponents libtards and other derogatory names. In my experience that is far from true.

I am, as my old thread shows, a reluctant Trump voter...but unless something drastically changes, I will be a Trump voter. And considering the other (Democrat) policy options,...in governing and stated policies, I am PROUD to be such. Trump is an arrogant, self loving, prideful and morally impure man.
MY assertion is that YOUR assertion that we can't vote Trump because of his said lack of morals is WRONG.
If it's not wrong, then it begs the question, that you cannot answer, WHO is the MORAL candidate that we can and should vote for?

And your "I'm just a poor, well meaning poster who's misunderstood no matter how wonderfully I articulate my argument" doesn't ring true in this FFF context. FWIW, like you...I'm also a brilliant poster who's infallible arguments are disagreed with here...my my intellectual inferiors.
But I'm not leaving...i'm staying around to set these clowns straight.
And I wish you'd stick around as well.

 

[ALAYMAN]

...
MY assertion is that YOUR assertion that we can't vote Trump because of his said lack of morals is WRONG.
If it's not wrong, then it begs the question, that you cannot answer, WHO is the MORAL candidate that we can and should vote for?

I think, like Tom Brennan's recent series on Facebook regarding Trump being "unfit for the presidency" the inevitable conclusion is to either not vote, or vote 3rd party.

FWIW, like you...I'm also a brilliant poster who's infallible arguments are disagreed with here...my my intellectual inferiors.
But I'm not leaving...i'm staying around to set these clowns straight.

You forgot modest!

And I wish you'd stick around as well.

Ditto

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think, like Tom Brennan's recent series on Facebook regarding Trump being "unfit for the presidency" the inevitable conclusion is to either not vote, or vote 3rd party.


You forgot modest!



Ditto

Due respect to Tom, I‘m not voting for a third party…or a first party. I’m voting for the candidate who argues for policies and principles I deem right and best for our country.

Modesty was understood.

 

[aleshanee]

i know a few people here in my state who believe christians should never vote or have anything to do with politics.... they also believe christians should never serve in the military or work in any part of government..including fire and ems....... what i hear and see of brennans statements.. along with those of our own resident objectionist.... seem to lend credence to that belief system whether they agree with all of it or not....

but if you view our country as a ship at sea... and one which is on fire and in danger of sinking.... then there are 2 factions among the crew on board working against each other ... one faction wants to take action that will hasten the ships demise.. but the other faction is actively trying to save the ship.. ..

trouble is both factions are made up of drunks and men of low moral character.... .(in other words men no different than the average worldly sailor or seaman).... ... who we are all stuck with unless we decide to jump off the ship... (run to another country).... and thus give ourselves up to the sea... ...

refusing to vote in an election or voting for a "morally acceptable" 3rd party who has no chance of winning. ... .(not to mention no real plan that will save the ship)..... because we don;t want to associate ourselves with either major group of drunks... is no different than refusing to lend a hand to the party that can save the ship... or worse - (in the case of the people i know in this state) - running to ones cabin and hiding.. then hoping and praying the ship doesn;t sink.... ........ i don;t see any merit or righteousness in either of two options no matter how pious or holy we might consider ourselves.... . ......

to me it betrays an attitude no different than what jonah displayed after he preached to nineveh then set up camp outside the city to watch it burn..... only difference is we are not able to run away like jonah did.... if the ship we are on... (the country we are all citizens of).... burns - then we all burn with it...(something american voters should have learned after biden took office)..... and if we didn;t do all we could to stop it then we are as guilty as those who set the fires.....

and that;s my opinions on it......

 

[voicecrying]

That is not the calling of the church.

Jesus did not come to change the world, but to provide an escape from the wrath that is certain to come upon it.

Isn't that (change the world) the main argument, though, why people say we have to vote for Trump?

 

[abcaines]

Isn't that (change the world) the main argument, though, why people say we have to vote for Trump?

No. Trump supporters are trying to keep the liberals from changing the world. (To their liking)

 

[voicecrying]

No. Trump supporters are trying to keep the liberals from changing the world. (To their liking)

Abortion was legal before Trump. Trump appointed judges who helped overturn that. Isn't that change?

 

[aleshanee]

Isn't that (change the world) the main argument, though, why people say we have to vote for Trump?

Abortion was legal before Trump. Trump appointed judges who helped overturn that. Isn't that change?

what he did was return the country to constitutional rule on the matter rather than the edicts of activist judges... ... the issue of abortion went back to the states... some of whom put restrictions on it or made it illegal....and others... like the state i live in ... left abortion completely legal and unrestricted as if roe v wade was still in effect.... .

but the difference is that we the voters have a say in whether it remains legal here or not... . unfortunately conservatives here are outnumbered by liberals - but there is always hope and a chance we could convince people to vote for conservatives and petition the state legislature to restrict abortion or outlaw it in the future.... ........that is one way trump brought about change... ...all the other ways were quickly reversed the day biden took office.... so you can;t really call those things change... . they were just a temporary action.....

 

[aleshanee]

No. Trump supporters are trying to keep the liberals from changing the world. (To their liking)

schumer himself danced in the street on the day the ballots were being recounted and yelled out.... "now we win georgia and then we change the world!!"..... . a few minutes later he corrected what he said and added "now we change america!".....