Nature doesn't really teach . . .

Gringo

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When the Bible asks that doesn't nature itself teach that if one has long hair that it's a shame to him . . .
What do y'all feel it means when it uses the word "nature"? I've been told by more than one that it isn't really saying long hair is shameful - and "context" was used.

So what is the context and what is that verse saying or asking since it isn't really saying or asking what it seems like it's saying or asking.

Thanks
 
IDK...

But I find it astounding that such an important doctrine arises from one verse and then that verse apparently goes on to define the definition of long...
 
I remember an old FFFer remarking once about what "nature" taught him about men having long hair, after his son was born with long black hair to his waist.

What Paul means by "nature" here is probably something like "established custom." Roman men kept their hair short; long hair was associated with barbarians.

In Judaism there was the idea of a Nazirite vow, which was a temporary vow of consecration to God's service. Nazirites allowed their hair to grow long, and at the end of their vow it was cut off and burned. Paul himself had taken such vows (Acts 18:18). However, if the visible symbol of a Nazirite vow was long hair, then it stands to reason that for Jewish men, short hair was the norm as well.

This also makes sense of 1 Cor. 11:16: "If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God." In other words, men in the Greco-Roman Empire of the first century kept their hair short, and all the churches accepted the custom.

Consider also that Paul is writing to the church in Corinth, which was a deeply pagan city. Often when we see an unusual command in the Bible that doesn't have an obvious rationale, it usually strikes me as part of a broader prohibition on imitating the pagans:

We see again the need to understand the culture of the time to find the rationale. The best recent research suggests that long hair (perhaps resembling an external head covering) on a man likely made him appear too much like Roman priests officiating at certain pagan rituals. (William W. Klein, Craig L. Blomberg, and Robert L. Hubbard, Jr., Introduction to Biblical Interpretation.)​
 
My understanding growing up (and not in an Independent Baptist Church) was that long hair implied "Feminity" and that gay men would grow their hair out long in order to look like a lady in order to attract men.

It also represented all the rebellious long-haired, maggot infested, commie loving hippies back in the 1960s and 70s.

I grew up in Texas during the Vietnam era and people were rather "Redneck" regarding "Long-Haired Hippie Freaks!"

Of course not every man with long hair is trying to look like a woman and if you call them "Gay" you might just get a good butt whoopin (even if they are gay, right?)! :cool:

Call a biker a "Hippie" and you might find yourself in legitimate mortal danger! Long-haired hippie freaks learned this the hard way when they mistakenly thought bikers were their buddies during war protests and so forth!

I wore long hair for a while in High School because I was a "Rocker," listened to Led Zeppelin, and played the guitar. Probably not a good idea for some young guy where long hair made him look "Pretty" but hey, I wanted to look like Jimmy Page!

I cut my hair after joining the Navy (Duh!) and since then, I was never able to grow my hair out without it really bothering me so it stays clean-cut above my ears of which is the predominant style whether you are a "Hippie Freak" or not! Kept it short even when I was playing in a Classic Rock/Blues band along with everyone else!

Aside from all this, I do not think I have answered your question have I? All I can tell you about nature is that when I grow my hair out, it naturally bothers me so I get it cut regularly!:ROFLMAO:
 
You should invest in a good set of commentaries or two. I have Matthew Henry's in book form, Calvin's on CD-ROM (<--whew, that ages me!). I had Matthew Poole's once on disk (or is it disc?) but lost it.

Anyway, I've found that the Puritans and the Reformers are pretty much agreed on most things. The scholarship and devotion of both Henry and Calvin are unimpeachable.

Said all that to say this: to me, when Paul speaks of nature, he means natural law.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: - Romans 2:14
And further down speaks of outward circumcision as unnatural
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:27-29​
Calvin:​
Doth not even nature itself He again sets forth nature as the mistress of decorum, and what was at that time in common use by universal consent and custom — even among the Greeks — he speaks of as being natural, for it was not always reckoned a disgrace for men to have long hair. 638 Historical records bear, that in all countries in ancient times, that is, in the first ages, men wore long hair. Hence also the poets, in speaking of the ancients, are accustomed to apply to them the common epithet of unshorn 639 It was not until a late period that barbers began to be employed at Rome — about the time of Africanus the elder. And at the time when Paul wrote these things, the practice of having the hair shorn had not yet come into use in the provinces of Gaul or in Germany. Nay more, it would have been reckoned an unseemly thing for men, no less than for women, to be shorn or shaven; but as in Greece it was reckoned all unbecoming thing for a man to allow his hair to grow long, so that those who did so were remarked as effeminate, he reckons as nature a custom that had come to be confirmed.


Henry​
VI. He enforces his argument from the natural covering provided for the woman (v. 13-15): "Judge in yourselves—consult your own reason, hearken to what nature suggests—is it comely for a woman to pray to God uncovered? Should there not be a distinction kept up between the sexes in wearing their hair, since nature has made one? Is it not a distinction which nature has kept up among all civilized nations? The woman's hair is a natural covering; to wear it long is a glory to her; but for a man to have long hair, or cherish it, is a token of softness and effeminacy." Note, It should be our concern, especially in Christian and religious assemblies, to make no breach upon the rules of natural decency.

That law is that there needs to be a distinction in the grooming and attire of men and women. That's as far as the more civilized Gentiles could see it. Paul was saying, "Does not even nature teach you this very fact? Even the Gentiles can see this much." But he takes it further by explaining the grooming and attire should reflect God's created order in the sexes and their relationship to one another in the Lord.

When Paul said, "no such custom," most commentators are agreed that he said that the churches of God have no such custom in contending with societal norms that are in harmony with the laws of nature.

Here's a good online library: https://ccel.org/
 
Ekk and Ransom gave you reasonable contextual rationale for how to interpret the verse. What is it that you find interesting or problematic about the verse?
 
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Thank you for your replies. I think I understand you to say that "nature" is what is accepted in one's culture at the time.

I had read in another thead about long hair and decided to bring up this verse. I personally have no problem with long hair on men and know that in many ancient cultures it was considered manly, not effeminate. I am jealous of VoiceCrying's long locks.

I don't consider long hair on a man as a "doctrine" but do consider ONE verse sufficent, if it was.

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