Nepotism, choosing a new pastor, etc

[prophet]

To answer the OP, assuming a church with a Head Pastor, I don't think that Nepotism comes into play nearly as much as people think.

Remember nepotism is showing favor on the basis of family relationship or in this case choosing a successor because they are family and not because they are the most qualified.

In most churches with only 1 pastor, the pastor's son is quite often the only qualified person around to assume the leadership of the church. Most of the time, he's been there the longest of any of the candidates so he knows the people and the culture of the church the best. Most of the time he shares the same vision as his father so presumably he shares the same vision as the people. Most of the time his doctrine most closely matches the direction of the church. Most of the time his father has trained him and discipled him more than anyone else at the church.

Now, is a 1-pastor church the Biblical model? Likely not, but that's a discussion for another thread.

If the pastor was doing his job there would be more than one qualified man. Just sayin'

You mean, ordaining elders constantly, and sending out missionaries by two?

Who woulda thunk it?

 

[prophet]

My opinion is that it is almost always wrong fro a pastor to choose his own successor, especially his son, or SIL.  It is seldom effective and does not reflect well on the church membership.
That being said, there are places where it has worked well. Someone mentioned the Falwell example.  The church did vote Jonathon in as pastor, but don't believe there was anyone else who was considered. The fact that Jonathon was extremely well educated, holds a law degree, and was on the staff of the church for several years before his dad passed, helped with a smooth transition.
On the other side of the coin, you have the Hyles disaster. Saaaaap was under-educated, ill prepared, chosen by his FIL, probably had pictures of dr. jack and the secretary, etc.  This is bolstered by the fact that saaaaaaaaaap's son was promoted to a "professor" and department head at hac, based solely on his last name. He had no qualifications to become a professor at any accredited institution.  The same can be said for the Jones (BJU )family to a lesser degree. The recent change they made, is probably too little too late, but at least the guy they chose, was a Citadel grad and not an incestuous mind-numbed robot. We will soon see about the mind-number robot part, first reports are not hopeful.

Schaap wasn't chosen by his F.I.L.

I'm not contending that he wasnt a disaster, among many, I'm just setting the record straight.

I was there, from 1978 to 2006.
I served as an associate pastor, and maintence staff member.
This isn't opinion:

Hyles tried to groom Schaap.
Hyles gave up on him, cuz he was a screwball.
Hyles taught the church that no pastor should ever be allowed to name their successor, and admitted that the time before that he had done that, turned out to be a colossal failure.

He officially declared that he had named his successor, and then said that he would succeed himself, and die in the saddle,  which he did.

Before he died, he taught a Wed. Eve. on how to choose a successor.
He laid out a pattern, including a standing committee, some disolvable committees, and candidacy procedures.

Of course, we determined to prove our critics right, and man-worship the already listing ship down to the bottom of the deep.

I know you could care less, BB, and have earned your distaste the hard way.
I simply posted this for the sake of anyone else reading this thread, who may actually believe the liar, Schaap, that he was the recipient of "Elijah's Mantle".

 

[T-Bone]

Frag is going to call you al DOEGS! 

 

[bgwilkinson]

My opinion is that it is almost always wrong fro a pastor to choose his own successor, especially his son, or SIL.  It is seldom effective and does not reflect well on the church membership.
That being said, there are places where it has worked well. Someone mentioned the Falwell example.  The church did vote Jonathon in as pastor, but don't believe there was anyone else who was considered. The fact that Jonathon was extremely well educated, holds a law degree, and was on the staff of the church for several years before his dad passed, helped with a smooth transition.
On the other side of the coin, you have the Hyles disaster. Saaaaap was under-educated, ill prepared, chosen by his FIL, probably had pictures of dr. jack and the secretary, etc.  This is bolstered by the fact that saaaaaaaaaap's son was promoted to a "professor" and department head at hac, based solely on his last name. He had no qualifications to become a professor at any accredited institution.  The same can be said for the Jones (BJU )family to a lesser degree. The recent change they made, is probably too little too late, but at least the guy they chose, was a Citadel grad and not an incestuous mind-numbed robot. We will soon see about the mind-number robot part, first reports are not hopeful.

Schaap wasn't chosen by his F.I.L.

I'm not contending that he wasnt a disaster, among many, I'm just setting the record straight.

I was there, from 1978 to 2006.
I served as an associate pastor, and maintence staff member.
This isn't opinion:

Hyles tried to groom Schaap.
Hyles gave up on him, cuz he was a screwball.
Hyles taught the church that no pastor should ever be allowed to name their successor, and admitted that the time before that he had done that, turned out to be a colossal failure.

He officially declared that he had named his successor, and then said that he would succeed himself, and die in the saddle,  which he did.

Before he died, he taught a Wed. Eve. on how to choose a successor.
He laid out a pattern, including a standing committee, some disolvable committees, and candidacy procedures.

Of course, we determined to prove our critics right, and man-worship the already listing ship down to the bottom of the deep.

I know you could care less, BB, and have earned your distaste the hard way.
I simply posted this for the sake of anyone else reading this thread, who may actually believe the liar, Schaap, that he was the recipient of "Elijah's Mantle".

One addition would be his attempted resuscitation of Dave after the Miller Road debacle.

Bro. Hyles had hinted with us when Dave first came back that Dave could possible be his replacement.

I don't think he wanted to acknowledge that sexual predators do not normally ever get cured.

The recidivism rate is near 100%.

 

[prophet]

My opinion is that it is almost always wrong fro a pastor to choose his own successor, especially his son, or SIL.  It is seldom effective and does not reflect well on the church membership.
That being said, there are places where it has worked well. Someone mentioned the Falwell example.  The church did vote Jonathon in as pastor, but don't believe there was anyone else who was considered. The fact that Jonathon was extremely well educated, holds a law degree, and was on the staff of the church for several years before his dad passed, helped with a smooth transition.
On the other side of the coin, you have the Hyles disaster. Saaaaap was under-educated, ill prepared, chosen by his FIL, probably had pictures of dr. jack and the secretary, etc.  This is bolstered by the fact that saaaaaaaaaap's son was promoted to a "professor" and department head at hac, based solely on his last name. He had no qualifications to become a professor at any accredited institution.  The same can be said for the Jones (BJU )family to a lesser degree. The recent change they made, is probably too little too late, but at least the guy they chose, was a Citadel grad and not an incestuous mind-numbed robot. We will soon see about the mind-number robot part, first reports are not hopeful.

Schaap wasn't chosen by his F.I.L.

I'm not contending that he wasnt a disaster, among many, I'm just setting the record straight.

I was there, from 1978 to 2006.
I served as an associate pastor, and maintence staff member.
This isn't opinion:

Hyles tried to groom Schaap.
Hyles gave up on him, cuz he was a screwball.
Hyles taught the church that no pastor should ever be allowed to name their successor, and admitted that the time before that he had done that, turned out to be a colossal failure.

He officially declared that he had named his successor, and then said that he would succeed himself, and die in the saddle,  which he did.

Before he died, he taught a Wed. Eve. on how to choose a successor.
He laid out a pattern, including a standing committee, some disolvable committees, and candidacy procedures.

Of course, we determined to prove our critics right, and man-worship the already listing ship down to the bottom of the deep.

I know you could care less, BB, and have earned your distaste the hard way.
I simply posted this for the sake of anyone else reading this thread, who may actually believe the liar, Schaap, that he was the recipient of "Elijah's Mantle".

One addition would be his attempted resuscitation of Dave after the Miller Road debacle.

Bro. Hyles had hinted with us when Dave first came back that Dave could possible be his replacement.

I don't think he wanted to acknowledge that sexual predators do not normally ever get cured.

The recidivism rate is near 100%.

I remember him painting Dave as a man who "fell", and "messed up his marriage", rather than a serial whoremonger rapist murderer.

Would've helped if we were told the truth.

 

[Biker]

Acts 14:23 Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.


Titus 1:5-9 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the [a]overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

Acts 20:17 ‘‘And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called for the elders (plural) of the church (singular)’’   
Acts 20:17 From Miletus he sent a message to Ephesus, telling the elders of the church to come to him. 18 When they arrived, he said to them, “You yourselves know how I lived the whole time I was with you, from the first day I set foot in the province of Asia, 19 serving the Lord with all humility and with tears, and with the trials that happened to me because of the plots of the Jews. 20 You know that I did not hold back from proclaiming to you anything that would be helpful, and from teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying to both Jews and Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus. 22 And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem without knowing what will happen to me there, 23 except that the Holy Spirit warns me in town after town that imprisonment and persecutions are waiting for me. 24 But I do not consider my life worth anything to myself, so that I may finish my task and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the good news of God’s grace.



I've not seen in scripture where it is forbidden to appoint relatives but it can certainly appear as a conflict of interest I'd think. Yet sometimes it cannot be avoided, especially if the church is small.
The flock doesn't run the church, the Church leaders do. There is no "Voting" of Leaders amongst the sheep, thank God Instead Leaders appoint other Leaders within the Church. Yet often a man will inadvertantly arise as a candidate, the flock may notice, thus pointing them out to Leaders.

There is not one verse in scripture that tells of us adhering to a single pastor aka "The Pastor" or "The Elder" or "The Bishop" or "The Shepard, or "The Overseer" There is no additional office above, OR in addition to, "Pastor". No position is above the Elders, nor below them such as "Youth Pastor" for example. These are man made positions. There is no person GOD has appointed to only oversee young adults & children in the church

The examples we see are more akin to business models than NT churches
Everyone is a servant of the Lord and a servant to one another. And these servant duties and positions can, and probably will, change. As men have families they are commanded to care for, it's not expedient in that part of life to generally devote such a huge portion of your life to others. It's best to keep the heart home where the family is. Otherwise you have a broken family living together. Training up children on a daily basis, and loving them. Caring and loving your spouse. Not being too preoccupied with other peoples troubles, even the Lord told us that married mens interests are divided. Highlighting the benefits of singlehood and total devotion of service to Him.Humility cannot be had by all, nor a true unity in the church when things are so cockeyed.



Ephesians 4:1-"I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, 3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.  4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.  7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christï's gift.

.

 

[bruinboy]

My opinion is that it is almost always wrong fro a pastor to choose his own successor, especially his son, or SIL.  It is seldom effective and does not reflect well on the church membership.
That being said, there are places where it has worked well. Someone mentioned the Falwell example.  The church did vote Jonathon in as pastor, but don't believe there was anyone else who was considered. The fact that Jonathon was extremely well educated, holds a law degree, and was on the staff of the church for several years before his dad passed, helped with a smooth transition.
On the other side of the coin, you have the Hyles disaster. Saaaaap was under-educated, ill prepared, chosen by his FIL, probably had pictures of dr. jack and the secretary, etc.  This is bolstered by the fact that saaaaaaaaaap's son was promoted to a "professor" and department head at hac, based solely on his last name. He had no qualifications to become a professor at any accredited institution.  The same can be said for the Jones (BJU )family to a lesser degree. The recent change they made, is probably too little too late, but at least the guy they chose, was a Citadel grad and not an incestuous mind-numbed robot. We will soon see about the mind-number robot part, first reports are not hopeful.

Schaap wasn't chosen by his F.I.L.

I'm not contending that he wasnt a disaster, among many, I'm just setting the record straight.

I was there, from 1978 to 2006.
I served as an associate pastor, and maintence staff member.
This isn't opinion:

Hyles tried to groom Schaap.
Hyles gave up on him, cuz he was a screwball.
Hyles taught the church that no pastor should ever be allowed to name their successor, and admitted that the time before that he had done that, turned out to be a colossal failure.

He officially declared that he had named his successor, and then said that he would succeed himself, and die in the saddle,  which he did.

Before he died, he taught a Wed. Eve. on how to choose a successor.
He laid out a pattern, including a standing committee, some disolvable committees, and candidacy procedures.

Of course, we determined to prove our critics right, and man-worship the already listing ship down to the bottom of the deep.

I know you could care less, BB, and have earned your distaste the hard way.
I simply posted this for the sake of anyone else reading this thread, who may actually believe the liar, Schaap, that he was the recipient of "Elijah's Mantle".

So was it easier to believe the habitual liar jack I or jack II?

 

[prophet]

My opinion is that it is almost always wrong fro a pastor to choose his own successor, especially his son, or SIL.  It is seldom effective and does not reflect well on the church membership.
That being said, there are places where it has worked well. Someone mentioned the Falwell example.  The church did vote Jonathon in as pastor, but don't believe there was anyone else who was considered. The fact that Jonathon was extremely well educated, holds a law degree, and was on the staff of the church for several years before his dad passed, helped with a smooth transition.
On the other side of the coin, you have the Hyles disaster. Saaaaap was under-educated, ill prepared, chosen by his FIL, probably had pictures of dr. jack and the secretary, etc.  This is bolstered by the fact that saaaaaaaaaap's son was promoted to a "professor" and department head at hac, based solely on his last name. He had no qualifications to become a professor at any accredited institution.  The same can be said for the Jones (BJU )family to a lesser degree. The recent change they made, is probably too little too late, but at least the guy they chose, was a Citadel grad and not an incestuous mind-numbed robot. We will soon see about the mind-number robot part, first reports are not hopeful.

Schaap wasn't chosen by his F.I.L.

I'm not contending that he wasnt a disaster, among many, I'm just setting the record straight.

I was there, from 1978 to 2006.
I served as an associate pastor, and maintence staff member.
This isn't opinion:

Hyles tried to groom Schaap.
Hyles gave up on him, cuz he was a screwball.
Hyles taught the church that no pastor should ever be allowed to name their successor, and admitted that the time before that he had done that, turned out to be a colossal failure.

He officially declared that he had named his successor, and then said that he would succeed himself, and die in the saddle,  which he did.

Before he died, he taught a Wed. Eve. on how to choose a successor.
He laid out a pattern, including a standing committee, some disolvable committees, and candidacy procedures.

Of course, we determined to prove our critics right, and man-worship the already listing ship down to the bottom of the deep.

I know you could care less, BB, and have earned your distaste the hard way.
I simply posted this for the sake of anyone else reading this thread, who may actually believe the liar, Schaap, that he was the recipient of "Elijah's Mantle".

So was it easier to believe the habitual liar jack I or jack II?

Jack 1.

He was likable, sometimes.

Jack 2 made my skin crawl.

I remember having a conversation with God, when I was 19, asking where I could go that the people didn't lie in His name.

I'm glad that He took me with Him.