Nicolaitan

[Holy Mole]

So, if I were to lay charge against one who is lording over the laity, would I be wrong to use the term Nicolaitan?

You could just call him popish. Use it in a disparaging way. It was used to great effect to describe Catholics in the early 16th century.

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.

And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

Don't forget about Pontiff Pilate and what he did..

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So, if I were to lay charge against one who is lording over the laity, would I be wrong to use the term Nicolaitan?

You could just call him popish. Use it in a disparaging way. It was used to great effect to describe Catholics in the early 16th century.

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.

And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

Don't forget about Pontiff Pilate and what he did..

Do you have a fpeech impediment?

 

[Holy Mole]

So, if I were to lay charge against one who is lording over the laity, would I be wrong to use the term Nicolaitan?

You could just call him popish. Use it in a disparaging way. It was used to great effect to describe Catholics in the early 16th century.

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.

And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

Don't forget about Pontiff Pilate and what he did..

Do you have a fpeech impediment?

Only when he read the King James

 

[prophet]

So, if I were to lay charge against one who is lording over the laity, would I be wrong to use the term Nicolaitan?

You could just call him popish. Use it in a disparaging way. It was used to great effect to describe Catholics in the early 16th century.

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.

And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

Don't forget about Pontiff Pilate and what he did..

Do you have a fpeech impediment?

Phteven?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So, if I were to lay charge against one who is lording over the laity, would I be wrong to use the term Nicolaitan?

You could just call him popish. Use it in a disparaging way. It was used to great effect to describe Catholics in the early 16th century.

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.

And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

Don't forget about Pontiff Pilate and what he did..

Do you have a fpeech impediment?

Phteven?

 

[subllibrm]

ALL pastors, it has been proven, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

They consider themselves to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors are the only kind that exist.

Fixed it for you based on what I have learned here.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Did you send this to your Pastor?
Along with instructions to consider his ways?

Right, which is perfectly fitting for pastors.  After all, what do pastors do?  They pontificate.

pon·tif·i·cate
verb
pänˈtifiˌkāt/
1. (in the Roman Catholic Church) officiate as bishop, especially at Mass.
2. express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.
Vt
And what is a pontiff?

pon·tiff
ˈpän(t)əf/
noun
the pope.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Better yet, send Mater over to straighten him out.

Wouldn't work.  I'm part of the puny laity.  We have no standing to correct a man o' God. 

And I am only half-joking.  My few attempts to inform pastors (at least 3 pastors) of alternative interpretations of scripture were entirely discarded without discussion or consideration.  Without exception, the pastors were visibly annoyed that someone would be bold enough to offer an interpretation other than his.  If that isn't popish, I don't know what is.

I think in order to effectively correct or instruct someone, you must have the respect of your audience.
That, of course, applies to me, you or anyone else.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

ALL pastors, it has been proven, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

They consider themselves to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors are the only kind that exist.

Fixed it for you based on what I have learned here.

Because, this truth ^^^ bears repeating.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

ALL pastors, it has been proven, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

They consider themselves to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors are the only kind that exist.

Fixed it for you based on what I have learned here.

In my opinion, only men who have a Hyles connection fall into this category. Those who were taught under him and then who were taught under those who were taught under him, etc...

Of course, there may be those who are the exception but I have found this to be the rule in most cases.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

I have never, ever met a pastor who was truly open to being held accountable for his teaching to the assembly of believer priests. 

And they've got the perfect model for remaining unaccountable.  They get up.  They speak for an hour.  And if the laity wants to say anything, they can tell him in private where it can safely be ignored. 

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Exactly.  And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation.  Now, where does the Bible define a pastor that way? 

 

[bgwilkinson]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

I have never, ever met a pastor who was truly open to being held accountable for his teaching to the assembly of believer priests. 

And they've got the perfect model for remaining unaccountable.  They get up.  They speak for an hour.  And if the laity wants to say anything, they can tell him in private where it can safely be ignored. 

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Exactly.  And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation.  Now, where does the Bible define a pastor that way?

That is an excellent question.

I have not found and do not know of any place in Scripture that answers that question.

Of course it would have to be interpreted in context not twisted to mean something even God didn't know.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

I have never, ever met a pastor who was truly open to being held accountable for his teaching to the assembly of believer priests. 

And they've got the perfect model for remaining unaccountable.  They get up.  They speak for an hour.  And if the laity wants to say anything, they can tell him in private where it can safely be ignored. 

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Exactly.  And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation.  Now, where does the Bible define a pastor that way?

The problem is, you are speaking of the extreme swing of the pendulum. Are there men with this mindset? Certainly. Are there men who are equally wrong to the other extreme? Absolutely. There are errors at both ends of the spectrum; yet, you only point out the errors of the one side. Where is the balance? 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I think it is time to bring up the pastor/priest model for discussion.

In case one is unfamiliar with this model, it goes like this:

Heb 13:7&17 - Those who teach the Bible have the rule over the others in the church.  The laity should follow the teacher's faith and obey him in steps of faith, because the teacher is directing the laity towards God.  The laity should willingly submit to the teacher of the Bible (pastor).  The pastor will one day give account to God.  This means that the pastor will report to God concerning the laity's actions and God will act according to the pastor's report.  The laity should strive to meet the pastor's expectations and steps of faith so that the pastor may be able to report to God a good report concerning the laity.

This teaching is then substantiated by its followers with 1 Peter 5:2 - The pastor should take the oversight of the flock - and 1 Peter 5:5's command for other to submit to the pastor.  Such authority to command people into the faith of God is then believed to be rewarded by God in 1 Peter 5:4



Personally, I have seen this model played out in different levels in different churches.  I stand firmly against a manipulative mog.  We see that the pastor/priest model is easily refuted with the remaining passages in 1 Peter 5 (neither being as lords.....humble yourselves......ensampes......all subject one to another..... et. al.)  However, God plainly tells us to remember those who have the rule over us, who have spoken unto us the word of God. 

Personally, I like Matthew Henry's comments on this topic.  We are to approach the teaching of the Word in a Berean manner but willing to examine ourselves through the teaching of the Word.

I also believe the concept that the pastor will report to God what our reward, or, in some applications, salvation, to be absolutely absurd.

____________________________

Are there other thoughts refuting or supporting this pastor/priest model?

If Nicolaitan really does mean to rule over the laity, why does God tell us to obey them that have the rule over you that are teaching His word?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

I have never, ever met a pastor who was truly open to being held accountable for his teaching to the assembly of believer priests. 

And they've got the perfect model for remaining unaccountable.  They get up.  They speak for an hour.  And if the laity wants to say anything, they can tell him in private where it can safely be ignored. 

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Exactly.  And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation.  Now, where does the Bible define a pastor that way?

That is an excellent question.

I have not found and do not know of any place in Scripture that answers that question.

Of course it would have to be interpreted in context not twisted to mean something even God didn't know.

Again, I ask...what about YOUR PASTOR?
Where does HE fit into this so called abuse or non-abuse of the office?

We know where mater stands and what he practices.....how about you, your church, your practice?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Many pastors it would seem, do not want to be accountable to the assembly of believer priests.

I have never, ever met a pastor who was truly open to being held accountable for his teaching to the assembly of believer priests. 

And they've got the perfect model for remaining unaccountable.  They get up.  They speak for an hour.  And if the laity wants to say anything, they can tell him in private where it can safely be ignored. 

They appear to be bosses and not shepherds.

Popish pastors.

Exactly.  And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation.  Now, where does the Bible define a pastor that way?

The problem is, you are speaking of the extreme swing of the pendulum. Are there men with this mindset? Certainly. Are there men who are equally wrong to the other extreme? Absolutely. There are errors at both ends of the spectrum; yet, you only point out the errors of the one side. Where is the balance?

The problem is that they pull this  "And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation" accusation out of their backsides...with no proof of it's validity.
I'm a Pastor and I certainly don't believe or practice that!

Does any pastor here claim that to be true?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

The problem is that they pull this  "And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation" accusation out of their backsides...with no proof of it's validity.
I'm a Pastor and I certainly don't believe or practice that!

Does any pastor here, claim that to be true?

I have had the misfortune to sit under a couple of "If you don't agree with me you have a right to be wrong" pastors. Exclusive rights? No, but they certainly demand that when you interpret the Bible your interpretation better line up with theirs or obviously your interpretation is wrong.

Fortunately, I know many more pastors who have the correct balance in this area.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The problem is that they pull this  "And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation" accusation out of their backsides...with no proof of it's validity.
I'm a Pastor and I certainly don't believe or practice that!

Does any pastor here, claim that to be true?

I have had the misfortune to sit under a couple of "If you don't agree with me you have a right to be wrong" pastors. Exclusive rights? No, but they certainly demand that when you interpret the Bible your interpretation better line up with theirs or obviously your interpretation is wrong.

Fortunately, I know many more pastors who have the correct balance in this area.

That flavor of Pastor is the exception, not the rule, thankfully.
And to assume and make this broad brush statement about Pastors ("And they consider themselves teachers with exclusive rights on scripture interpretation") is ignorant....to say the least.

And, why would you sit under that idiocy? 

 

[Smellin Coffee]

And, why would you sit under that idiocy? 

Why not ask your Democrat congregants?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

And, why would you sit under that idiocy? 

Purely for logistical reasons and only for as long as I had to. Praise God not anymore!