Now.On.Earth.

[subllibrm]

I gave you foundational support from Scripture for my understanding that death is the portal to something better.  Paul spoke about things that he couldn't even articulate.  If you think life now is the same equivalent of life where no sin is prevalent, within or without us, you are living in a fantasy land that is unbiblical.

It is true that I am looking forward to the future without the effects of the curse. That said I am not looking forward to eternal life because I already have eternal life. I am not eagerly awaiting my inheritance as an adopted son of the Most High any more than I want my parents to die so I can have my share of the estate. I have all that I need right here, right now. The veil is gone. The only thing holding me back from experiencing "heaven" now is the veil in me (nod to Tozer) that separates me from a truer, stronger, closer relationship with the Father that I already have.

Will it be better in the future? Absolutely. No pain. No tears. No sin. Even so I have all that I need in Christ to enjoy Him now. I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.

 

[rsc2a]

From the original article:

Is that [life is all about sorting out who goes to heaven] it?

Is this the message?

Is this what Jesus and the apostles announced?

Are we in rehearsals? Is this prep time for the final exam? Are we taking batting practice? Is this pre-season and we’re sorting out the team, making the cuts, setting the roster?

Let's see how a standard evangelical pastor would answer that:

Heaven is a place in the future of every Christian, and I want to know—Are you prepared? Are you really ready to go...I have found the best way to live the greatest life in this world is to be more concerned with the next one. - Greg Laurie




Of course, I realize that the quote was from Greg Laurie. It's not like he's influential or traditionally evangelical or anything. Surely he's an anomaly. No one else would say that...

Regarding heaven, hell and the afterlife, [Pastor Ed] King's theology is quotidian conservative evangelicalism, as he adduced in our recent conversation.

Heaven or hell awaits us, depending on the "arrangements" made in this life. Heaven will be home for those who have been "born again," those accepting Jesus Christ's vicarious suffering and death on the cross - source



Various WCBC students
- It's all about winning souls for Jesus Christ so that when we all get to heaven...
- “There is a map to our church in this invitation, but more importantly, on the back there is a map to heaven,” Luis told Isaac, “Do you know for sure that if you died you would go to heaven?”
- ...showing someone how they can know for sure Heaven is their eternal home.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=subllibrm]It is true that I am looking forward to the future without the effects of the curse. That said I am not looking forward to eternal life because I already have eternal life. I am not eagerly awaiting my inheritance as an adopted son of the Most High any more than I want my parents to die so I can have my share of the estate. I have all that I need right here, right now. The veil is gone. The only thing holding me back from experiencing "heaven" now is the veil in me (nod to Tozer) that separates me from a truer, stronger, closer relationship with the Father that I already have.

Will it be better in the future? Absolutely. No pain. No tears. No sin. Even so I have all that I need in Christ to enjoy Him now. I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.[/quote]

So you agree with the author's point.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I gave you foundational support from Scripture for my understanding that death is the portal to something better.  Paul spoke about things that he couldn't even articulate.  If you think life now is the same equivalent of life where no sin is prevalent, within or without us, you are living in a fantasy land that is unbiblical.

It is true that I am looking forward to the future without the effects of the curse. That said I am not looking forward to eternal life because I already have eternal life. I am not eagerly awaiting my inheritance as an adopted son of the Most High any more than I want my parents to die so I can have my share of the estate. I have all that I need right here, right now. The veil is gone. The only thing holding me back from experiencing "heaven" now is the veil in me (nod to Tozer) that separates me from a truer, stronger, closer relationship with the Father that I already have.

Will it be better in the future? Absolutely. No pain. No tears. No sin. Even so I have all that I need in Christ to enjoy Him now. I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.

For the most part, I like that, and don't disagree.  Have I said something in my response that contrasts that general view?

Specifically, to put the jelly on the bottom shelf, when you said I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.  Is the <rightful> pursuit of the fullness of God today the equivalent of experiencing the material reality of the fullness of God after leaving this body and being separate from sin?

 

[Izdaari]

It isn't you more than him. You're both adamantly asserting "I'm right and you're wrong" when it's something where both of you are right at the same time, and just fighting about where to put the emphasis and how to express it. Maybe it takes somebody who isn't involved to notice that.

It's probably a fault of mine, but I like to work in the particulars, which makes me a good candidate for a fundamentalist mindset.   Given that I need concrete concepts to understand where I have misunderstood him, could you state in what regard I have erred in figuring out what he is alleging?

I'll try when I have time. I'm kind of in drive-by mode at the moment.  :-*

 

[subllibrm]

I gave you foundational support from Scripture for my understanding that death is the portal to something better.  Paul spoke about things that he couldn't even articulate.  If you think life now is the same equivalent of life where no sin is prevalent, within or without us, you are living in a fantasy land that is unbiblical.

It is true that I am looking forward to the future without the effects of the curse. That said I am not looking forward to eternal life because I already have eternal life. I am not eagerly awaiting my inheritance as an adopted son of the Most High any more than I want my parents to die so I can have my share of the estate. I have all that I need right here, right now. The veil is gone. The only thing holding me back from experiencing "heaven" now is the veil in me (nod to Tozer) that separates me from a truer, stronger, closer relationship with the Father that I already have.

Will it be better in the future? Absolutely. No pain. No tears. No sin. Even so I have all that I need in Christ to enjoy Him now. I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.

For the most part, I like that, and don't disagree.  Have I said something in my response that contrasts that general view?

Specifically, to put the jelly on the bottom shelf, when you said I don't want to live waiting for "someday" when I can pursue the fullness of God today.  Is the <rightful> pursuit of the fullness of God today the equivalent of experiencing the material reality of the fullness of God after leaving this body and being separate from sin?

I wasn't disagreeing as much as using your post as a launch pad to explain where I am at. There is an element to the standard thought of "waiting until someday" that held me back from a life of joy. I don't want to be here. I want to go home. But here I am.

When life is dealing out the trials that James promised would come, the "hope of heaven" can seem pretty weak balm. I had to learn to (am learning to) appropriate my sonship in the present tense. To trust that there is blessing in that season as well. Which is exactly what James challenges us to do. Paul does the same when he tells us to live is Christ and to die is gain. To be always (more to the point, only) focused on the gain detracts us from the Christ we are supposed to live for and enjoy while were are here. So no, I don't believe the pursuit is equal to the future. Neither did Paul. But pursue we must.

Michael Card sang a song about finding the Joy in the Journey. I guess the idea is that a constant focus on the "someday" can rob us of the joy of today. Focusing on Christ in a life of worship now gives us the joy now AND prepares us (in some small way) to worship God forever and ever amen.


Even so Lord Jesus, come! 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I wasn't disagreeing as much as using your post as a launch pad to explain where I am at. There is an element to the standard thought of "waiting until someday" that held me back from a life of joy. I don't want to be here. I want to go home. But here I am.

When life is dealing out the trials that James promised would come, the "hope of heaven" can seem pretty weak balm. I had to learn to (am learning to) appropriate my sonship in the present tense. To trust that there is blessing in that season as well. Which is exactly what James challenges us to do. Paul does the same when he tells us to live is Christ and to die is gain. To be always (more to the point, only) focused on the gain detracts us from the Christ we are supposed to live for and enjoy while were are here. So no, I don't believe the pursuit is equal to the future. Neither did Paul. But pursue we must.

Michael Card sang a song about finding the Joy in the Journey. I guess the idea is that a constant focus on the "someday" can rob us of the joy of today. Focusing on Christ in a life of worship now gives us the joy now AND prepares us (in some small way) to worship God forever and ever amen.


Even so Lord Jesus, come! 

Excellent bro!  Could not possibly agree more.

And since you said it so well, particularly about the notion of pining for God/heaven so much that you don't exist in the proper spiritual frame of mind/worship here, I'll confess something.  After I preached that message, I had a dear lady come up to me and confide that she is so weary that she longs for heaven greatly.  So much so that I think she took my admonition to look at death properly the wrong way.  Her adult children never got saved, and she has had to care for her husband's infirmity for a long time.  She's seen a lot of suffering and pain.  But as I talked with her I reminded her that God's purpose in her life is not to merely get her to heaven, but to live in and through her in this world here and now.