Only KJV?

[christundivided]

author=The Rogue Tomato link=topic=4628.msg81141#msg81141
Yup.  Like here, where Ishmael is erased from history if it means "one and only son":

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

Thank you. "Only begotten son" certainly does not mean "one and only son." The title "only begotten" is just that - a title of primacy or preeminence. Isaac is called Abraham's "only begotten" son because he was the heir to the promise of God. He was not Abraham's one and only son.

Jesus Christ is the "only begotten" Son of the Father.  He is certainly preeminent. He is not God's "one and only" Son - He is the "firstborn" of every creature (Col. 1:15), and the "firstborn" among many brethren (Rom. 8:29).

But, laying all that aside. I can still see how a child might be confused by the difference. Very few first-graders can handle a theological discussion of this nature.

You're horribly wrong..... You obviously have no idea how the KJV uses the word "begotten" in the NT. 

1Jn 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Use your same logic on the verses I posted?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Actually, Jesus is God's "one and only Son"...God doesn't have many sons in the same nature of Christ...we are the children of God through adoption...We are not sons of God in the same way Jesus is the Son of God.  He is God's one and only Son!

I guess we'll have to disagree on this point. Sons by adoption are still sons. Adopted children are still children. We call Him "Father" just like Jesus did (Mark 14:36 - Gal. 4:6). He calls us "sons" (I John 3:1).

In what version do you read "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son with this nature and, son in a different way than his adopted sons, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"?

 

[christundivided]

Actually, Jesus is God's "one and only Son"...God doesn't have many sons in the same nature of Christ...we are the children of God through adoption...We are not sons of God in the same way Jesus is the Son of God.  He is God's one and only Son!

I guess we'll have to disagree on this point. Sons by adoption are still sons. Adopted children are still children. We call Him "Father" just like Jesus did (Mark 14:36 - Gal. 4:6). He calls us "sons" (I John 3:1).

In what version do you read "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son with this nature and, son in a different way than his adopted sons, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"?

T-Bone... that "only begotten" phrase......... is getting bigger and bigger. So much for the uniqueness of the Son.

 

[Ransom]

I could easily see how a child, who just heard how he could become a son of God (John 1:12, I John 3:2), might be confused to read that Jesus is God's "one and only" Son. 

Yeah, it's impossible to explain adoption to children.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I could easily see how a child, who just heard how he could become a son of God (John 1:12, I John 3:2), might be confused to read that Jesus is God's "one and only" Son. 

Yeah, it's impossible to explain adoption to children.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

That fact that it can be explained is not the issue, is it? After all, the out-dated, archaic words of the KJV can all be explained as well. The issue, as it relates to this thread is the confusion it may cause a child. And, more specifically, is that why some churches do not allow non-KJV scripture on their printed material? 

I, personally, have no preference as to the rendering of John 3:16 in other versions. I don't base my theology on any isolated scripture. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

IMHO doctrine should be determined by the original languages of the Bible not by any one translation, and if you must use translations then use multiple translations to determine the sense of the sculptures.

 

[.tim]

When it comes to children I would assume the leaders and parents are more confusing than some random scriptures from the NIV, ESV or The Message.

 

[Ransom]

That fact that it can be explained is not the issue, is it?

"Who will think of the poor, stupid children?" isn't a really useful translation philosophy, is it?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Our Church uses KJV only text on everything.

But, I also know if someone used NIV it wouldn't be a major issue.

I believe everyone knows to default to KJV out of habit.

I believe this would describe most Baptist churches today.

Am I misunderstanding what you're saying?  Of the several Baptist churches I've visited or attended, at least half of them used the NIV or something other than KJV.  My first church was SBC, and they used NKJV. 

 

[Citadel of Truth]

That fact that it can be explained is not the issue, is it?

"Who will think of the poor, stupid children?" isn't a really useful translation philosophy, is it?

No, sir, it is not. 

 

[T-Bone]

Actually, Jesus is God's "one and only Son"...God doesn't have many sons in the same nature of Christ...we are the children of God through adoption...We are not sons of God in the same way Jesus is the Son of God.  He is God's one and only Son!

I guess we'll have to disagree on this point. Sons by adoption are still sons. Adopted children are still children. We call Him "Father" just like Jesus did (Mark 14:36 - Gal. 4:6). He calls us "sons" (I John 3:1).

In what version do you read "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son with this nature and, son in a different way than his adopted sons, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"?

I don't read what you wrote in any translation, that would be adding to what the Scripture actually says...kinda like what your doing by claiming you are the same as Jesus the only Son of God...guessing you don't see that your claim logically leads to the place where if your the same then you don't really need Him.  I'm what world do you find that adoption and natural born are one in the same?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I'm what world do you find that adoption and natural born are one in the same?

What does "joint heirs" or "heirs together with Christ" mean to you?

 

[T-Bone]

I'm what world do you find that adoption and natural born are one in the same?

What does "joint heirs" or "heirs together with Christ" mean to you?

It mean because of what Christ has done I an blessed to receive an inheritance, because of what Christ has done I am now a child of God, because of what Christ has done I get to call God Abba, Father.  It does not mean that I am equal to Christ, it does not mean that I am a Son of God as Jesus is THE Son of God.  I am a member of the family of God because of what the only Son of God has done. 

You are not equal with Christ, never have been never will be!

 

[Fresh Air]

If you were the pastor of a church, would you forbid pictures, posters, or banners to be displayed in your church that have scripture verses from a version other than the KJV? What about bulletin covers with a verse from a non-KJV version?

I ask because my sister-in-law was told that she could not pass out a coloring sheet to her first grade class at VBS last week because the picture she found had a verse not from the KJV.

If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tom Brennan]If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.
[/quote]

"My pastor may be a fear-mongering racist, but at least he's consistent about his hatred for people with different skin tones than his!"

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

If you were the pastor of a church, would you forbid pictures, posters, or banners to be displayed in your church that have scripture verses from a version other than the KJV? What about bulletin covers with a verse from a non-KJV version?

I ask because my sister-in-law was told that she could not pass out a coloring sheet to her first grade class at VBS last week because the picture she found had a verse not from the KJV.

If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.

Um... no. 

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

If you were the pastor of a church, would you forbid pictures, posters, or banners to be displayed in your church that have scripture verses from a version other than the KJV? What about bulletin covers with a verse from a non-KJV version?

I ask because my sister-in-law was told that she could not pass out a coloring sheet to her first grade class at VBS last week because the picture she found had a verse not from the KJV.

If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.

Um... no.

So be inconsistent?

 

[Fresh Air]

[quote author=Tom Brennan]If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.

"My pastor may be a fear-mongering racist, but at least he's consistent about his hatred for people with different skin tones than his!"
[/quote]

Right. Because a love for God's Word and a desire to see it used carefully and well is just like racist hatred...

 

[Citadel of Truth]

It mean because of what Christ has done I an blessed to receive an inheritance, because of what Christ has done I am now a child of God, because of what Christ has done I get to call God Abba, Father.

I don't disagree with any of this. I don't thinks this is all that it means, but I certainly agree that it means all this. 

It does not mean that I am equal to Christ, it does not mean that I am a Son of God as Jesus is THE Son of God.

 

I believe you are the only one who is throwing around the word "equal." I certainly did not intimate that I or any other child of God was equal to Christ. I've only suggested that all of God's children are "sons" of God as Jesus is God's Son. Not equal, but certainly sharing in the same relationship with the Father as His sons. 

I am a member of the family of God because of what the only Son of God has done.

 

Okay, we can play the semantics game all day if you want. I am a member of the family of God because of the vicarious atonement of the Son of God and because of the faithful testimony of many sons of God (Mat. 5:16). 

You are not equal with Christ, never have been never will be!

Nope, not in the way you define equal. But, praise the Lord, someday I will be just like Him (Phil. 3:21, I John 3:2).

 

[Ransom]

If you are going to hold a position you should hold it consistently. You may not agree with that position but you should agree with their desire to be consistent.

If you are going to hold a position, it should be a true position, not a false tradition. Then, be consistent with the truth, instead.

People who consistently hold to really bad ideas aren't virtuous, they're just doggedly stubborn.