Over the years

[Just me]

Over he years did you believe the stories told from the staff at WHBC/OBC about those who left?  It seems there was always a negative reason for any who dared to leave the might Vineyard regime.  From staffers to faithful church families I have heard reasons from all over the realms of reality for them daring to leave. 

So I ask, did you really believe them or just said ya ok whatever in your head.

 

[Walt]

I wasn't at WHBC/OBC, but at a very similar place... I believed what was said about the people who left; mostly because I didn't really know them -- just the facade they put on on Sunday.

However, when a close friend left, and she was viciously  maligned, I realized how easy it was for leadership to tell partial truths and shade stories in their own favor.

I am very grateful to God for opening my eyes.

 

[Just me]

A wise man once told me, "that until it becomes personal you do not see it for what it is"

Most members believe the leadership at the church and never think for a minute they are lying to them or deceiving them. 

but

once it becomes personal their eyes open!!

 

[Tanner]

Bob Ross is doing the same thing down south.  He has hurt many reputations and relationships

 

[JustABigKid]

Over he years did you believe the stories told from the staff at WHBC/OBC about those who left?  It seems there was always a negative reason for any who dared to leave the might Vineyard regime.  From staffers to faithful church families I have heard reasons from all over the realms of reality for them daring to leave. 

So I ask, did you really believe them or just said ya ok whatever in your head.

When you grow up there you do simply because you know nothing else and as a young person do not have access to the internet to search it out, parents are on board with making sure you have no contact with those people, and you are threatened with all kinds of things from ending up with a ruined life to being kicked out of school that you just don't bother checking into the claims. Also you are taught from the beginning that the pastor knows best.

As you grow older and are able to move out from the thumb and you begin to see these so called "hypocrites and rebels" and see that a lot of them are not that at all then the questions start to come to your mind about the truth of the things being said. Are some of them heading down the wrong path sure but not at all of them and more are not than are.

Some who grow up there realize it sooner than others and unfortunately some not at all. The hardest part is when you do realize it and go to leave you know that you will be black listed probably made an example of and talked bad about which is why some decide not to leave.

 

[Just me]

Over he years did you believe the stories told from the staff at WHBC/OBC about those who left?  It seems there was always a negative reason for any who dared to leave the might Vineyard regime.  From staffers to faithful church families I have heard reasons from all over the realms of reality for them daring to leave. 

So I ask, did you really believe them or just said ya ok whatever in your head.

When you grow up there you do simply because you know nothing else and as a young person do not have access to the internet to search it out, parents are on board with making sure you have no contact with those people, and you are threatened with all kinds of things from ending up with a ruined life to being kicked out of school that you just don't bother checking into the claims. Also you are taught from the beginning that the pastor knows best.

As you grow older and are able to move out from the thumb and you begin to see these so called "hypocrites and rebels" and see that a lot of them are not that at all then the questions start to come to your mind about the truth of the things being said. Are some of them heading down the wrong path sure but not at all of them and more are not than are.

Some who grow up there realize it sooner than others and unfortunately some not at all. The hardest part is when you do realize it and go to leave you know that you will be black listed probably made an example of and talked bad about which is why some decide not to leave.

Well explained JustABigKid.  That is how other young people who grew up there and knew of nothing else explained it to me in conversations also.  That is how Cult environments thrive and continue.  Second generation young people are some of the hardest hit thru it all.  They see it for what it is and when they speak out or walk away they are nailed by both family and the entire group.

 

[Walt]

Bob Ross is doing the same thing down south.  He has hurt many reputations and relationships

I'm very sorry to hear that. I have nephews/nieces that go there.

 

[Tanner]

Bob Ross is doing the same thing down south.  He has hurt many reputations and relationships

I'm very sorry to hear that. I have nephews/nieces that go there.

I was in the Fundy movement a long time and saw many disturbing things.  But he was the first Pastor that would openly trash people for leaving or even disagreeing with him.  The adults will get over it and move on, my prayer is that the teens he has hurt will one day return to church.  If a teen made a mistake he would humiliate them in front of the church and eventually run them off.  A staff member's kid was caught red handed alone with another student during school and it was covered up.  He is not a teen guru, he is a bully and has two sets of standards depending on who your are or what your last name is.

 

[Just me]

That is all Bro Ross has ever known in terms of how to deal with situtions.  JAV taught him and he learned all the worst of techniques very well.  It is no surprise that he continues to abuse and humiliate as his mode of operation.  That is all he ever did at WHBC over the years.  I use to hope he was just doing the bidding of his lord Vineyard but it has become obvious that it is what is engrained into his very soul and sadly will never change.

 

[Walt]

Bob Ross is doing the same thing down south.  He has hurt many reputations and relationships

I'm very sorry to hear that. I have nephews/nieces that go there.

I was in the Fundy movement a long time and saw many disturbing things.  But he was the first Pastor that would openly trash people for leaving or even disagreeing with him.  The adults will get over it and move on, my prayer is that the teens he has hurt will one day return to church.  If a teen made a mistake he would humiliate them in front of the church and eventually run them off.  A staff member's kid was caught red handed alone with another student during school and it was covered up.  He is not a teen guru, he is a bully and has two sets of standards depending on who your are or what your last name is.

Apparently, he doesn't fully understand what is meant by a "bully pulpit". 

 

[Walt]

That is all Bro Ross has ever known in terms of how to deal with situtions.  JAV taught him and he learned all the worst of techniques very well.  It is no surprise that he continues to abuse and humiliate as his mode of operation.  That is all he ever did at WHBC over the years.  I use to hope he was just doing the bidding of his lord Vineyard but it has become obvious that it is what is engrained into his very soul and sadly will never change.

It is a sad commentary on the lack of Biblical understanding and knowledge in the pew.  Their previous pastor was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it appears, from the quote above, that they have selected a bully as the new pastor.

 

[JustABigKid]

That is all Bro Ross has ever known in terms of how to deal with situtions.  JAV taught him and he learned all the worst of techniques very well.  It is no surprise that he continues to abuse and humiliate as his mode of operation.  That is all he ever did at WHBC over the years.  I use to hope he was just doing the bidding of his lord Vineyard but it has become obvious that it is what is engrained into his very soul and sadly will never change.

It is a sad commentary on the lack of Biblical understanding and knowledge in the pew.  Their previous pastor was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it appears, from the quote above, that they have selected a bully as the new pastor.

Those trying to cover the sins of the previous pastor probably bullied the people into accepting him just like WHBC was bullied into accepting Bro. Porter and then Tom.

 

[Just me]

That is all Bro Ross has ever known in terms of how to deal with situtions.  JAV taught him and he learned all the worst of techniques very well.  It is no surprise that he continues to abuse and humiliate as his mode of operation.  That is all he ever did at WHBC over the years.  I use to hope he was just doing the bidding of his lord Vineyard but it has become obvious that it is what is engrained into his very soul and sadly will never change.

It is a sad commentary on the lack of Biblical understanding and knowledge in the pew.  Their previous pastor was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it appears, from the quote above, that they have selected a bully as the new pastor.

Those trying to cover the sins of the previous pastor probably bullied the people into accepting him just like WHBC was bullied into accepting Bro. Porter and then Tom.

But, the people of WHBC voted 100% for Bro Porter being God's will for WHBC only to vote 100% a short time later for it being God's will for Tom to be pastor.  ???

 

[Tanner]

There is a small group of staff that covered up sexual and financial crimes of the former Pastor.  Bob Ross' first order of business was to keep them in position and tell everyone to get over it.  The men that went to him and suggested a house cleaning was shown the door and called trouble makers.

 

[TruthBearer]

That is all Bro Ross has ever known in terms of how to deal with situtions.  JAV taught him and he learned all the worst of techniques very well.  It is no surprise that he continues to abuse and humiliate as his mode of operation.  That is all he ever did at WHBC over the years.  I use to hope he was just doing the bidding of his lord Vineyard but it has become obvious that it is what is engrained into his very soul and sadly will never change.

It is a sad commentary on the lack of Biblical understanding and knowledge in the pew.  Their previous pastor was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it appears, from the quote above, that they have selected a bully as the new pastor.

Those trying to cover the sins of the previous pastor probably bullied the people into accepting him just like WHBC was bullied into accepting Bro. Porter and then Tom.

But, the people of WHBC voted 100% for Bro Porter being God's will for WHBC only to vote 100% a short time later for it being God's will for Tom to be pastor.  ???

Yes there was a vote and members had a chance to oppose but they remained silent. They just did what Jimbo wanted them to do because they were trained to not go against church leaders.  Nobody wanted to publically be the bad guy and vote against the two people that Jimbo selected to replace him. Several members would have voted against both of them (especially Tom) but they didn't want to be black listed and they had kids in school.

 

[Hope]

A wise man once told me, "that until it becomes personal you do not see it for what it is"

Most members believe the leadership at the church and never think for a minute they are lying to them or deceiving them. 

but

once it becomes personal their eyes open!!

That is what happened to our family. We just didn't see it before then.  I'm sad it took us so long,  and so many turned their back on the church and the Lord because of our former pastor (OBC Grad), but I rejoice that he is no longer in the ministry and no longer in a position of power over God's people.

 

[Just me]

A wise man once told me, "that until it becomes personal you do not see it for what it is"

Most members believe the leadership at the church and never think for a minute they are lying to them or deceiving them. 

but

once it becomes personal their eyes open!!

That is what happened to our family. We just didn't see it before then.  I'm sad it took us so long,  and so many turned their back on the church and the Lord because of our former pastor (OBC Grad), but I rejoice that he is no longer in the ministry and no longer in a position of power over God's people.

Yours is a common testimony of those who had their eyes opened after leaving the compound. First they always say they are sad it took them so long.  I know I beat myself up for a while over that very thought.  I wished so badly we had seen the truth years and I mean years sooner then we did.

Then you start to see those who have left before you.  Many have gone on and grown in His grace and sadly others are like you said and have turned their back on our Lord.  But in those people I am finding out that they really have not turned their backs on Him only on the churches like WHBC that they have left.  They want nothing to do with Cultish churches and the people in them either.

Also you start to see why many who have left will have nothing to do with anyone associated with their past church.  A total complete break is what they need to move forward.  They put so much of their lives and hearts into it they have to break totally away.  No reminders whatsoever.  That is my recommendation right there.  The reason is because all from that IFBxer mentality type churches are extremely judgemental whether they admit to it or not.

 

[Hope]

Well so,  Just Me. We are still in the same church,  but a new pastor.  He is the antithesis of our former pastor.  We have still lost many members since his arrival,  but due to economic issues,  not the pastor.  As old members leave,  the depth of the judgmental mentality is lifted more and more. 

I had often reflected on exactly what you just said and have sincerely felt that our church will not be able to really move forwad until the last original members leave.  There are only a few left, us being one of the families, but God having shut the door over and over for us to leave.
It is heartbreaking to see the depth of the former pastor's negative influence, but I'm thankful that those who moved are in good churches.