(Pastor) Cameron Giovanelli pleads guilty today

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Twisted

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Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
 

Baptist City Holdout

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Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
Whoa, there folks! I almost got suckered into a bastion of liberalism. Close one.
 

brianb

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Twisted said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
Are you kidding me? You guys know what I was talking about right? I put it in quotation marks because that's what the world calls it - the Billy Graham rule which is not being alone with a woman who isn't your wife or in the broader sense it can mean a woman not being alone with a man that they aren't dating like the Harvey Weinstein thing. This has nothing to do with compromise.
 

Twisted

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brianb said:
Twisted said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
Are you kidding me? You guys know what I was talking about right? I put it in quotation marks because that's what the world calls it - the Billy Graham rule which is not being alone with a woman who isn't your wife or in the broader sense it can mean a woman not being alone with a man that they aren't dating like the Harvey Weinstein thing. This has nothing to do with compromise.
Yes.  We're kidding you.

But that "rule" I attribute to Lee Roberson.
 

brianb

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Twisted said:
brianb said:
Twisted said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
Are you kidding me? You guys know what I was talking about right? I put it in quotation marks because that's what the world calls it - the Billy Graham rule which is not being alone with a woman who isn't your wife or in the broader sense it can mean a woman not being alone with a man that they aren't dating like the Harvey Weinstein thing. This has nothing to do with compromise.
Yes.  We're kidding you.

But that "rule" I attribute to Lee Roberson.
I never knew it was attributed to anyone until it was called the "Mike Pence rule".  The reason for someone applying the rule depends on the rule. It's not always about sexual temptation as some are not really tempted in that way and not every situation with a woman he is not related to is risky either spiritually or potentially physically) so they could be doing it to avoid being accused. 
 

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I thought for sure he'd have to register as a sex offender but since he's in Florida he doesn't. 

???
 

Tarheel Baptist

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brianb said:
Twisted said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
Are you kidding me? You guys know what I was talking about right? I put it in quotation marks because that's what the world calls it - the Billy Graham rule which is not being alone with a woman who isn't your wife or in the broader sense it can mean a woman not being alone with a man that they aren't dating like the Harvey Weinstein thing. This has nothing to do with compromise.
Sorry, I understood your point. :)
Just tweaking the IFB?s who have made one?s KJVO and pants on ladies more important than their personal morality. Example...Hyles is good, Falwell an evil compromiser.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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Twisted said:
brianb said:
Twisted said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Baptist City Holdout said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
brianb said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
I?m not sure what?s going on but I assume Big Bob, a leader of IFB fundamentalism, has tweeted his support of a pervert. His two sons, aspiring leaders in IFB fundamentalism, are courageously denouncing said pervert and offering a rebuke to their father at the same time.

Is that the gist of it?
I looked into his twitter, the only thing I see is a tweet about why innocent people plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit (Giovanelli though admits he did said crimes) - it's a link to an article on guiltypleaproblem.org. There's nothing about Cameron Giovanelli though.
I saw this link posted elsewhere.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bobgraysr/status/1159203108175659008
Somebody get me a trash can. After reading that, I'm gonna be sick.
I agree. Even if the accuser was a false accuser (which is rare) the accuser would be found out. The best thing to do is to believe them (and doesn't the Bible say love/charity believes all things? A Christian knows what that means. ) Thankfully Sr. is retired and his sons are following the new better trend which is Biblical - not everything that is "politically correct" is anti-Biblical.    If anything, it shows that in this case the world finally agrees with the Bible on this.  Since #metoo nobody is above the law including high profile figures like Harvey Weinstein - they even see wisdom in the "Billy Graham rule".
Billy Graham!!
He?s a liberal compromiser.
The IFB?s need no help from Billy Graham.
Sure he was morally pure, but his wife wore pants and he used fake bibles...which are the true fundamentals of the faith.
True!  BG's rule:  "Compromise when there's a buck in it".
Are you kidding me? You guys know what I was talking about right? I put it in quotation marks because that's what the world calls it - the Billy Graham rule which is not being alone with a woman who isn't your wife or in the broader sense it can mean a woman not being alone with a man that they aren't dating like the Harvey Weinstein thing. This has nothing to do with compromise.
Yes.  We're kidding you.

But that "rule" I attribute to Lee Roberson.
Of course you do...
 

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After watching both videos, there was some coordination between them before they were recorded. The first few lines were too similar and it kind of takes the genuineness out it and seems more like damage control.
 

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qwerty said:
After watching both videos, there was some coordination between them before they were recorded. The first few lines were too similar and it kind of takes the genuineness out it and seems more like damage control.
I think big brother (Bob Jr.) went first and then little brother (Scott) followed suit.

It's never wrong to stand up & do the right thing, even when it may appear to be self serving.

I believe Scott saw his brothers video and in support and agreement made one of his own. It would not hurt for 10,000's of independent baptist preachers to come out publicly against abuse (in general) and to publicly state they will root it out and expose it wherever it can be found. To state they plan to create or strengthen policies to avoid such situations and that they stand ready to support and care for the victims of abuse whenever they come forward. I believe most already feel this way, but their members, the lost world and most of all the silent victims need to hear it.
 

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I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
 

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The best time for THE CHURCH (not just the pastor) to stand against abuse is before it happens by taking steps to prevent it.  Policies such as a window in every door in the building, never being alone with children / teens, not allowing people to work with children / teens for six months when they are new to the congregation (pedophiles won't wait around that long), clearances for all that work with youth, and other things should be in place publicly (and reviewed periodically).  I have talked to pastors of IFB churches and they have told me that it will never be a problem in their church so they don't need these things although they seem to be coming around.  A false accusation can disrupt the ministry of a church in a huge way and this is one way to prevent them.  I'll admit it is a pain in the neck to carry some of these things out but it is better than dealing with a false allegation or (worse yet) a true allegation. 
 

Tarheel Baptist

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illinoisguy said:
I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
Do you maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?
I would think, using common sense as the main barometer that most IFB's today would be vocally against such a culture...with maybe a few dinosaur's like Big Bob holding out. My point is not that I don't agree that the 2 Little Gray's should speak out...it's just that it doesn't take an extreme amount of courage to do so. It's like speaking out against bank robbery... :)
 

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qwerty said:
After watching both videos, there was some coordination between them before they were recorded. The first few lines were too similar and it kind of takes the genuineness out it and seems more like damage control.
Darned if you do, darned if you don't...
"Why doesn't the IFB hold these abusers accountable"  (like IFB is some kind of a denomination where a 'denominational board makes decisions' and has power that holds sway over independent autonomous churches)
But we've heard this ad-naseum year after year from the likes of many on the FFF and all over these Me too type groups.
Now, some of the so called leadership of the IFB (again, they have no control over any of us), tries to make a statement condemning the supporters of abusers and supporting the abused... and still no one or should I say, few are satisfied.


 

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Do I maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?  It sure looks that way to me, with all the reports that IFB counselors are asking sexual abuse victims, "How were you dressed?"  Jack Schaap's supporters said that what happened was not really his fault - the girl was to blame, she was seductive.  Battered wives have been told that it was their fault - they were not submissive enough to their brutish husbands.  When an IFB church member is thrown under the bus by the Mannagod, it is blamed on the victim - he wasn't "completely submissive" enough to the preacher.  Yes, the perception exists that the IFB movement has the tendency to blame the victim.  I think it would be a good idea for all of us who are involved in the IFB movement, or have been involved (including myself) to do whatever we can to help dispel this perception and to do what we can to support the victims.  But hey, that's just me.
 

sword

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Tarheel Baptist said:
illinoisguy said:
I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
Do you maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?
I would think, using common sense as the main barometer that most IFB's today would be vocally against such a culture...with maybe a few dinosaur's like Big Bob holding out. My point is not that I don't agree that the 2 Little Gray's should speak out...it's just that it doesn't take an extreme amount of courage to do so. It's like speaking out against bank robbery... :)
I have to disagree with you here Tarheel:

Try coming out on a public forum and correcting your father and mentor, even if he is wrong, before 1000's of followers / readers.

Remember that's their kids grandfather. Remember they are likely to see him at Christmas. Remember most of Bog Grey II members sat under and highly respect Bob Sr. I think it was a big deal that they felt strongly enough about it to publicly disagree with their dad.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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sword said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
illinoisguy said:
I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
Do you maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?
I would think, using common sense as the main barometer that most IFB's today would be vocally against such a culture...with maybe a few dinosaur's like Big Bob holding out. My point is not that I don't agree that the 2 Little Gray's should speak out...it's just that it doesn't take an extreme amount of courage to do so. It's like speaking out against bank robbery... :)
I have to disagree with you here Tarheel:

Try coming out on a public forum and correcting your father and mentor, even if he is wrong, before 1000's of followers / readers.

Remember that's their kids grandfather. Remember they are likely to see him at Christmas. Remember most of Bog Grey II members sat under and highly respect Bob Sr. I think it was a big deal that they felt strongly enough about it to publicly disagree with their dad.
To disagree with your Father takes courage?
I'm sorry but I disagree with my family regularly. I understand that this is public in the IFB arena but it doesn't appear to be ugly, irrational and name calling isn't involved, so the fact that they disagree is simply that...a disagreement. Again, the Little Gray's statements don't come off to be to be bold, courageous stands against a tidal wave of evil. It is akin to denouncing drunk driving.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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16KJV11 said:
qwerty said:
After watching both videos, there was some coordination between them before they were recorded. The first few lines were too similar and it kind of takes the genuineness out it and seems more like damage control.
Darned if you do, darned if you don't...
"Why doesn't the IFB hold these abusers accountable"  (like IFB is some kind of a denomination where a 'denominational board makes decisions' and has power that holds sway over independent autonomous churches)
But we've heard this ad-naseum year after year from the likes of many on the FFF and all over these Me too type groups.
Now, some of the so called leadership of the IFB (again, they have no control over any of us), tries to make a statement condemning the supporters of abusers and supporting the abused... and still no one or should I say, few are satisfied.
I believe, to the credit of the younger generation of IFB Pastors, that the culture of abuse and defending abusers has been basically eliminated in the mainstream of IFB life. In that context, it's fine that the Little Gray's issued public statements against abuse and an abuser. But, their videos have been greeted in the IFB pond as something 'special', something courageously wonderful. It is that response that I can't understand.
Next thing you know those courageous warrior's will denounce Benny Hinn.
 

16KJV11

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Tarheel Baptist said:
sword said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
illinoisguy said:
I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
Do you maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?
I would think, using common sense as the main barometer that most IFB's today would be vocally against such a culture...with maybe a few dinosaur's like Big Bob holding out. My point is not that I don't agree that the 2 Little Gray's should speak out...it's just that it doesn't take an extreme amount of courage to do so. It's like speaking out against bank robbery... :)
I have to disagree with you here Tarheel:

Try coming out on a public forum and correcting your father and mentor, even if he is wrong, before 1000's of followers / readers.

Remember that's their kids grandfather. Remember they are likely to see him at Christmas. Remember most of Bog Grey II members sat under and highly respect Bob Sr. I think it was a big deal that they felt strongly enough about it to publicly disagree with their dad.
To disagree with your Father takes courage?
I'm sorry but I disagree with my family regularly. I understand that this is public in the IFB arena but it doesn't appear to be ugly, irrational and name calling isn't involved, so the fact that they disagree is simply that...a disagreement. Again, the Little Gray's statements don't come off to be to be bold, courageous stands against a tidal wave of evil. It is akin to denouncing drunk driving.
If you don't think what Bob Jr. and Scott did took courage, then you really don't know the Grays.
It took courage.
 

Tarheel Baptist

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16KJV11 said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
sword said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
illinoisguy said:
I agree that it's a good thing for preachers to speak out against and disassociate themselves from clergy abuse in IFB circles, and I am not very concerned about the secret motivations of those who do the right thing by speaking out.  I don't think that very many people will be impressed by preachers who choose not to speak out because it doesn't involve them, it's gossip, it's a local church issue, etc. while they continue to preach for King James Only and against women's slacks, pink shirts on men,  New King James Version, mixed bathing, Christmas trees, electronic Bibles in church, women who go out to the gym or have their nails done, etc.  If those things are not "local church issues" and we can preach against them, I suppose we can also take a stand against IFB preachers who mess around with other men's wives or the teenage bus girls.

If there are IFB preachers who feel the need to do "damage control" (even if belated) by taking a stand against clergy abuse, that's a good sign.  It indicates that there is a lot of pushback against the false doctrine of the "divine right of pastors" and they are getting the message.  Keep up the good work and keep pushing back, everyone out there.

Baptist lay-people of the world, unite.  You have nothing to lose but your chains.

This is not intended as an incitement to rebel against all IFB pastors - only the bullying, abusive ones.  Continue to support your local IFB pastor who has a servant ministry and lives a good moral life.
Do you maintain that there still exists an IFB culture that blames the victim?
I would think, using common sense as the main barometer that most IFB's today would be vocally against such a culture...with maybe a few dinosaur's like Big Bob holding out. My point is not that I don't agree that the 2 Little Gray's should speak out...it's just that it doesn't take an extreme amount of courage to do so. It's like speaking out against bank robbery... :)
I have to disagree with you here Tarheel:

Try coming out on a public forum and correcting your father and mentor, even if he is wrong, before 1000's of followers / readers.

Remember that's their kids grandfather. Remember they are likely to see him at Christmas. Remember most of Bog Grey II members sat under and highly respect Bob Sr. I think it was a big deal that they felt strongly enough about it to publicly disagree with their dad.
To disagree with your Father takes courage?
I'm sorry but I disagree with my family regularly. I understand that this is public in the IFB arena but it doesn't appear to be ugly, irrational and name calling isn't involved, so the fact that they disagree is simply that...a disagreement. Again, the Little Gray's statements don't come off to be to be bold, courageous stands against a tidal wave of evil. It is akin to denouncing drunk driving.
If you don't think what Bob Jr. and Scott did took courage, then you really don't know the Grays.
It took courage.
Truthfully I know as much about the Gray's as you and Twisted know about the SBC.  :)

So, your understanding is that the Little Gray's posted the video's specifically to let the IFB world know that they disagreed with Big Bob?
And, in so doing, this caused friction and discord in their family because Big Bob is so egotistical he can't abide his own son's disagreeing with him?
Even when his stance is defending bank robbery or drunk driving?

IF that is true, then only in such a diminutive, convoluted, dysfunctional family and ministry environment would standing against perverts take courage.

 
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